Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 22

Thread: Pirates sticking with inconsistent Cedeno

      
  1. #1
    buccoray61's Avatar
    Status : buccoray61 is offline
    Rank : The Elite
    Join Date : Oct 11, 2009
    Posts : 3,885
    Threads : 691
    Last Online : Apr-03-2017 @ 06:56 AM

    Default Pirates sticking with inconsistent Cedeno

    Pirates sticking with inconsistent Cedeno
    Shortstop's tools, no immediate options have Bucs standing pat
    By Jenifer Langosch / MLB.com | 04/11/11 3:40 PM ET
    Comments (66)print e-mail
    PITTSBURGH -- The often maddening inconsistencies shown by shortstop Ronny Cedeno throughout his Major League tenure have already surfaced a few times this season.

    Cedeno had to be bailed out by Joel Hanrahan during the team's opening series after a ninth-inning throwing error. He nearly gave away the lead one night in St. Louis when he fumbled on a late-inning double-play opportunity. Cedeno was fortunate an error in the 14th inning on Friday didn't ruin the Pirates' chances to win that game, as well.

    There are flashes of defensive promise, but the lapses begin to overshadow those when what becomes most consistent is Cedeno's inconsistency. Regardless, a lack of better options and the organization's unwillingness to give up on Cedeno's talent keep the shortstop entrenched in a starting role.

    Cedeno's RBI single00:00:444/3/11: Ronny Cedeno lines an RBI single to right field, scoring Pedro Alvarez and putting the Pirates ahead 1-0 in the top of the secondTags: Pittsburgh Pirates, Ronny Cedeno, hitting, More From This GameShare: Facebook Twitter Email Related Video
    Cedeno's sacrifice flyCedeno's strong throwCedeno's solo shot
    "Part of the reason why we continue to give him the opportunity is that if it clicks, we've got a pretty good Major League shortstop," general manager Neal Huntington said. "In the interim, we've got a Major League shortstop. Whether we like it or not, he's not as far behind the average shortstop that you might like to feel he is and he makes you feel he is sometimes."

    The periodic slips in focus will continue to be a concern. The thing is, besides reminding Cedeno of his potential and trying to find ways to steady him, there is little the Pirates can do. Pittsburgh was unsuccessful in its attempts to upgrade the position this offseason despite interest in J.J. Hardy and Jason Bartlett -- both of whom ended up being traded elsewhere.

    That left the Pirates little choice but to re-sign Cedeno. The two sides agreed on a $1.85 million deal that includes a club option for 2012.

    "You look tools-wise, he can run, throw, hit and hit for power," Huntington said. "He can do a lot of things that Major League shortstops can't do. They just are more consistent. If we can get him to be consistent, we've got a pretty good player. It's a big year for Ronny Cedeno."

    But what if that patience runs out? Are there other options?

    Indeed, there are additional candidates -- but not necessarily an immediate short-term answer.

    Josh Rodriguez is the team's current backup shortstop and has made two starts in place of Cedeno so far. However, the Rule 5 Draft pick is inexperienced, and there is a concern that his bat is not yet ready to play at the Major League level.

    It appears premature to anoint Rodriguez, 26, as an upgrade.

    "I think defensively he's more comfortable than he is on offense right now," manager Clint Hurdle said. "I think the game is still moving a little quick on offense."

    Waiting in Triple-A is Pedro Ciriaco, who would be a solid defensive option, but whose bat also lags. To this point, compromising offense for a steadier glove isn't a tradeoff Pittsburgh is ready to make.

    But while there may not be an ideal second option behind Cedeno this year, the Pirates are hopeful that's not the case for long. And it's why 2011 sets up to be a critical year for Chase d'Arnaud.

    If the organization's top middle-infield prospect can rebound from a subpar 2010 season and flash the skills that prompted the Pirates to take him in the fourth round of the 2008 First-Year Player Draft, the club could have its long-term answer at shortstop beginning next season.

    "Chase is a guy we've always liked a lot," Huntington said. "He had a breakout year in '09, and some people jumped off his bandwagon a little bit last year. We didn't. We believe he has a good future."

    After spending last season in Double-A, d'Arnaud is now with Triple-A Indianapolis. He'll spend most of his time at short, where he committed 28 errors last season. Without question, improving defensively is a must before the Pirates could consider d'Arnaud as a Major League option.

    "I'm just trying to become polished," d'Arnaud said. "I look at myself as a player that can do everything well. I feel like I am capable of that. If I don't achieve that, I feel like I would have disappointed myself."

    The Pirates are hopeful that the presence of infield coordinator Gary Green will help d'Arnaud out as well. Green was d'Arnaud's manager in low Class A West Virginia, and he helped the infielder make significant strides on defense when d'Arnaud was there in 2009.

    Now, Green will be a frequent tutor in Indianapolis.

    There is work to be done offensively, as well. After a breakout season in '09, d'Arnaud took a step back in Double-A. He batted just .247 and struck out 102 times in 530 at-bats while facing tougher competition. His 33 stolen bases were a plus, but there must be a focus on getting on base more this year.

    "It was the first time that I had really struggled in professional baseball," d'Arnaud said of his 2010 season. "You learn from that and feel like the next time, if I were to face adversity such as that, I'd be able to make it through that and know that everything is going to be OK. Not that I didn't think everything was going to be OK then, but it's all a process.

    "Struggles go hand in hand with progression. Even though it may seem like I regressed, I don't feel like I did. I feel like I still progressed throughout the season and learned from it."

    Behind d'Arnaud sits Jordy Mercer, who is starting off in Double-A for a second year. Defensively, Mercer is the best middle infielder in the Pirates' system. Yet he has work to do with the bat in order to move into the Major League picture by next year.

    "We've got some guys that need to step forward this year," Huntington said. "We feel we're a lot deeper than most people feel we are. It's not quite as bleak a picture as some like to paint."
    http://Pirates sticking with inconsistent Cedeno
    Are these morons getting dumber or just louder-Mayor Quimby

  2. #2
    Kipper's Avatar
    Status : Kipper is offline
    Rank : Legend
    Join Date : Oct 8, 2009
    Posts : 67,323
    Threads : 1817
    Last Online : Apr-25-2017 @ 08:36 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pirates sticking with inconsistent Cedeno

    Waiting in Triple-A is Pedro Ciriaco, who would be a solid defensive option, but whose bat also lags. To this point, compromising offense for a steadier glove isn't a tradeoff Pittsburgh is ready to make.
    Which I don't agree with. Cedeno is currently batting .179 and is basically a permanent fixture in the #8 spot in the lineup. He averages a .256-ish average with the Pirates and 10 less hits would make him a .230-something hitter.

    A more consistent defenseman is more important especially when our Pitching Staff ranks 19th in K's in Strike Outs. Our Starters are tied for 2nd Lowest in the majors at 26 for an unsexy 4.01 K/9 . We sure as hell aren't getting guys out swinging and missing, so the importance of Defense for the Pirates is huge, it far outweighs 10 hits or so from the #8 spot over a full season. The Pirates Starters have the 8th highest Ground Ball Ratio and combine that with the terrible rate of walks our pitchers are throwing and the need to turn DP's is not only there but a huge need.

    Speaking of DP's, the Pirates right now rank 4th

    Good infield defense is important. Consistency is important with our Pitch to contact staff
    The Standard Is The Standard and The Pittsburgh Sports Forum Is The Standard


  3. #3
    buccoray61's Avatar
    Status : buccoray61 is offline
    Rank : The Elite
    Join Date : Oct 11, 2009
    Posts : 3,885
    Threads : 691
    Last Online : Apr-03-2017 @ 06:56 AM

    Default Re: Pirates sticking with inconsistent Cedeno

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Good infield defense is important. Consistency is important with our Pitch to contact staff
    Totally agree,not to mention the M.L.B. leading 46 walks. When you put runners on base at that rate,you've got to make all the routine plays.
    Are these morons getting dumber or just louder-Mayor Quimby

  4. #4
    Lup's Avatar
    Status : Lup is offline
    Rank : Minor Leaguer
    Join Date : Oct 18, 2009
    Posts : 605
    Threads : 36
    Last Online : Oct-01-2013 @ 09:32 AM

    Default Re: Pirates sticking with inconsistent Cedeno

    Ciriaco would obviously be a defensive upgrade at SS, but he would be a big dropoff offensively. I would stick with Cedeno until D'arnaud is ready. He is off to a good start this spring. It's a bit early to get excited.

  5. #5
    indybucfan's Avatar
    Status : indybucfan is offline
    Rank : Major Leaguer
    Join Date : Oct 16, 2009
    Posts : 1,226
    Threads : 45
    Last Online : Feb-11-2015 @ 07:42 AM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pirates sticking with inconsistent Cedeno

    Quote Originally Posted by Lup View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Ciriaco would obviously be a defensive upgrade at SS, but he would be a big dropoff offensively. I would stick with Cedeno until D'arnaud is ready. He is off to a good start this spring. It's a bit early to get excited.
    I agree Lup, putting Ciriaco in that lineup will be like batting 2 pitchers. After the trading deadline would be a good time to bring D'Arnaud up provided he continue to perform like he has.

  6. #6
    Kipper's Avatar
    Status : Kipper is offline
    Rank : Legend
    Join Date : Oct 8, 2009
    Posts : 67,323
    Threads : 1817
    Last Online : Apr-25-2017 @ 08:36 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pirates sticking with inconsistent Cedeno

    Quote Originally Posted by Lup View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Ciriaco would obviously be a defensive upgrade at SS, but he would be a big dropoff offensively. I would stick with Cedeno until D'arnaud is ready. He is off to a good start this spring. It's a bit early to get excited.
    His drop off is probably 10 hits over a full season. Cedeno is below average in OB{P so it's not like he draws walks either.

    That's not worth the larger need for infield defense behind a pitching staff that has the lowest strike out rate in the majors. If we didn't allow as much contact and could get at least an average number for K's, I'd be with you, but Defense is far mroe important for this infield IMO. Our ground ball rate for our pitchers is very high, so we need good defense, we need it more than 10 or even 15 extra hits from the #8 spot.

    We saw in 2008 that you can have all of the offense in the world but when you have a collection of pitch to contact guys on the mound with rotten defense (it was OF defense and range in 2008), it doesn't matter. You'll lose game 8-7.

    Defense wins championships
    The Standard Is The Standard and The Pittsburgh Sports Forum Is The Standard


  7. #7
    indybucfan's Avatar
    Status : indybucfan is offline
    Rank : Major Leaguer
    Join Date : Oct 16, 2009
    Posts : 1,226
    Threads : 45
    Last Online : Feb-11-2015 @ 07:42 AM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pirates sticking with inconsistent Cedeno

    Ciriaco's defense is not enough of an upgrade to justify giving 2 at bats per 9. The Indians played Ciriaco at short the first 2 games and since then, D'Arnaud has played there with Ciriaco at 2nd. I'm betting D'Arnaud is on the fast track and will be up soon if he continues playing the way he's played.

  8. #8
    wvkeeper's Avatar
    Status : wvkeeper is offline
    Rank : Major Leaguer
    Join Date : Oct 17, 2009
    Location : Right There
    Posts : 1,367
    Threads : 158
    Last Online : Nov-03-2016 @ 07:14 AM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pirates sticking with inconsistent Cedeno

    I am quite glad to see D'Arnoud's play this year.

    This is what really stinks about Tony Sanchez's injury last year.

  9. #9
    BigBen2112's Avatar
    Status : BigBen2112 is offline
    Rank : Hall Of Famer
    Join Date : Oct 13, 2009
    Posts : 5,773
    Threads : 135
    Last Online : Jun-03-2014 @ 02:44 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pirates sticking with inconsistent Cedeno

    Quote Originally Posted by wvkeeper View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I am quite glad to see D'Arnoud's play this year.

    This is what really stinks about Tony Sanchez's injury last year.
    If D'Arnaud is called up by July and can be even marginally successful I think this will set the Pirates up really well for the immediate future. I think that they'll have 2 maybe 3 pitchers in a similar situation by next year in July and possibly Sanchez as well. That means by 2012 you'd be looking at 2-3 starting pitching additions, a SS, and a C. We'd still need to have a 3B and RF (with Alvarez moving to 1B) but its starting to look better. I just wish we had a RF option...and I just hope they make the right decision with the draft this year.
    Hidden Content
    "Like I always say, there's no 'I' in team. There's a 'me,' though, if you jumble it all up."--House

  10. #10
    Kipper's Avatar
    Status : Kipper is offline
    Rank : Legend
    Join Date : Oct 8, 2009
    Posts : 67,323
    Threads : 1817
    Last Online : Apr-25-2017 @ 08:36 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pirates sticking with inconsistent Cedeno

    Quote Originally Posted by indybucfan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Ciriaco's defense is not enough of an upgrade to justify giving 2 at bats per 9. The Indians played Ciriaco at short the first 2 games and since then, D'Arnaud has played there with Ciriaco at 2nd. I'm betting D'Arnaud is on the fast track and will be up soon if he continues playing the way he's played.
    D'Arnaud is being developed for the future at SS, Ciriaco more of a utility role, so I wouldn't look into D'Arnaud's playing over Ciriaco as some sort of admission of one's defense over the other.

    I don't know how well Ciriaco plays defense to be honest. It can't be worse from a consistency stand point and the definite is that his arm is far better. I'm not even sure if I'm really recommending personally that Cedeno gets benched in place of Ciriaco or Rodriguez, just that I value defense over offense at SS and by a large margin. Defense to me is far more important than those 2 at bats per 9 innings. Again, 10 hits are the difference between batting .256 and .235 over a full season of play. 15 hits is the difference between .256 and .224 ...

    Better defense, less runs against, puts the offense at more of an ease rather than feel defeated. Pitch to contact staff, I care far more about defense at SS than 10-15 extra hits over 140 games from the #8 spot. The question I guess is how much more of a defensive improvement are Cedeno's backups?
    The Standard Is The Standard and The Pittsburgh Sports Forum Is The Standard


  11. #11
    BigBen2112's Avatar
    Status : BigBen2112 is offline
    Rank : Hall Of Famer
    Join Date : Oct 13, 2009
    Posts : 5,773
    Threads : 135
    Last Online : Jun-03-2014 @ 02:44 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pirates sticking with inconsistent Cedeno

    I will admit that I think the Pirates need to make some sort of move by the end of May or June with this shortstop situation if they are going to be able to A) have a chance, B) progress as they want to, C) give their pitchers a fighting chance.
    Hidden Content
    "Like I always say, there's no 'I' in team. There's a 'me,' though, if you jumble it all up."--House

  12. #12
    indybucfan's Avatar
    Status : indybucfan is offline
    Rank : Major Leaguer
    Join Date : Oct 16, 2009
    Posts : 1,226
    Threads : 45
    Last Online : Feb-11-2015 @ 07:42 AM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pirates sticking with inconsistent Cedeno

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    D'Arnaud is being developed for the future at SS, Ciriaco more of a utility role, so I wouldn't look into D'Arnaud's playing over Ciriaco as some sort of admission of one's defense over the other.

    I don't know how well Ciriaco plays defense to be honest. It can't be worse from a consistency stand point and the definite is that his arm is far better. I'm not even sure if I'm really recommending personally that Cedeno gets benched in place of Ciriaco or Rodriguez, just that I value defense over offense at SS and by a large margin. Defense to me is far more important than those 2 at bats per 9 innings. Again, 10 hits are the difference between batting .256 and .235 over a full season of play. 15 hits is the difference between .256 and .224 ...

    Better defense, less runs against, puts the offense at more of an ease rather than feel defeated. Pitch to contact staff, I care far more about defense at SS than 10-15 extra hits over 140 games from the #8 spot. The question I guess is how much more of a defensive improvement are Cedeno's backups?
    Actually I don't think them putting D'Arnaud at short had anything to do with defense. What it meant, was D'Arnaud is the prospect of the two and they view him as a shortstop. Ciriaco could very well be the better shortstop defensively, but D'Arnaud has the more complete set of skills.

  13. #13
    Kipper's Avatar
    Status : Kipper is offline
    Rank : Legend
    Join Date : Oct 8, 2009
    Posts : 67,323
    Threads : 1817
    Last Online : Apr-25-2017 @ 08:36 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pirates sticking with inconsistent Cedeno

    Quote Originally Posted by indybucfan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Actually I don't think them putting D'Arnaud at short had anything to do with defense. What it meant, was D'Arnaud is the prospect of the two and they view him as a shortstop. Ciriaco could very well be the better shortstop defensively, but D'Arnaud has the more complete set of skills.
    That's what I was meaning. D'Arnaud is the prospect and being developed as the SS and Ciriaco is being looked at as a utility guy for the IF.

    Let's all hope that D'Arnuad hits his stride and rebounds from a terrible 2010 season and gets back on track. He has a chance , has to see that he has a golden opportunity to fit into one of the biggest position holes we have on the field
    The Standard Is The Standard and The Pittsburgh Sports Forum Is The Standard


  14. #14
    Kipper's Avatar
    Status : Kipper is offline
    Rank : Legend
    Join Date : Oct 8, 2009
    Posts : 67,323
    Threads : 1817
    Last Online : Apr-25-2017 @ 08:36 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pirates sticking with inconsistent Cedeno

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBen2112 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I will admit that I think the Pirates need to make some sort of move by the end of May or June with this shortstop situation if they are going to be able to

    A) have a chance, They won't have a chance with a SS so you don't trade good prospects for something you don't neccesarily need for anything in the present.

    B) progress as they want to, A SS won't make a difference there. Progress is not throwing away prospects to pick up a SS via trade for a season that isn't going to result in a playoff birth. Progress is watching and seeing watch Chase D'Arnaud does over a full season at AAA before triggering a panic button

    C) give their pitchers a fighting chance. It would be nice but it's not worth the prospects we'd have to unload for the demand a SS at the trade deadline would demand if one were even available. Not with Chase D'Arnaud playing well
    If the Pirates are at a position by the trade deadline where they are competing for the division lead, it won't happen with awful SS play, not with this pitching staff. A need at that time will be pitching most likely.

    you don't throw away prospects for a stop gap SS.
    The Standard Is The Standard and The Pittsburgh Sports Forum Is The Standard


  15. #15
    PittFaninVa's Avatar
    Status : PittFaninVa is offline
    Rank : All-Star
    Join Date : Oct 28, 2009
    Posts : 2,433
    Threads : 94
    Last Online : Jun-07-2011 @ 10:03 PM

    Default Re: Pirates sticking with inconsistent Cedeno

    D'Arnuad has come out of the chute hot to start the season……2 more hits today.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •