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Thread: Jordan Staal

      
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    Default Jordan Staal

    Can we please cut ties with this guy now? I hope there arent any more Jordan Staal defenders still out there after this debaucle.

    This was his time to prove that he deserved that big contract and he was nowhere to be found. And please don't start saying things like "he worked hard and was physical and played solid defensively". He did all those things...much like any 3rd line center would do.

    Jordan staal does not score nearly enough to be taking up that much cap space.

    Its pretty sad when your #2 overall pick who makes $4mil per year can't even beat out a mid season minor league call up for top line center duties.

    Jordan Staal is a good 3rd line center. period.

    The only player in the NHL more overpaid than MAF is Jordan Staal

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    Default Re: Jordan Staal

    I think Staal has had plenty of opportunity to prove himself. He is, what he is... Average! His upside (IMO) is that he has an above average hockey IQ and a long reach. The long reach helps him be an above average faceoff winner and penalty killer. Besides that, he's average. Average speed, Average hands (I'm being kind), Average shot (I'm being kind, once again) he's not overly physical, he won't fight if his life depended on it. If Staal's a leader, he's not a vocal leader. He's basically a young Mike Rupp who isn't physical and doesn't fight. Sure he's handsome and a nice guy, but that doesn't help the Penguins win!

    When Staal's contract's up, I doubt he'll sign for less money, so the Pens will lose him eventually anyway.. Why not package Staal and Cooke and get a $7M, first line forward! ...Fill in the roster from there.

    Unfortunately, Staal's Shero's guy. So he won't be traded.

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    I still think he is good supporting cast. I never expected him to take the lead role. I would trade him in a heartbeat to keep Geno around. Other than that I dont see what the big fuss is about. He makes around the same money as Kunitz and Neal who arent stars either.

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    Default Re: Jordan Staal

    Quote Originally Posted by Beezy View Post
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    I still think he is good supporting cast. I never expected him to take the lead role. I would trade him in a heartbeat to keep Geno around. Other than that I dont see what the big fuss is about. He makes around the same money as Kunitz and Neal who arent stars either.
    I'd take another Kunitz/Neal for Crosby/Malkin over Staal...we have plenty of potential 3rd line centers.
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    Default Re: Jordan Staal

    Quote Originally Posted by Beezy View Post
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    I still think he is good supporting cast. I never expected him to take the lead role. I would trade him in a heartbeat to keep Geno around. Other than that I dont see what the big fuss is about. He makes around the same money as Kunitz and Neal who arent stars either.
    Kunitz makes $3.6 mil and is a top 6 forward who (if he can put a full season together with Sid) can easily score 30 goals.

    Neal makes $3.5 mil next season and is a top 6 forward who (after he figures out this system and plays with geno for a full year) will easily score 30 goals, possibly more.

    PS- Neal is going to be a star.
    The only player in the NHL more overpaid than MAF is Jordan Staal

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    Default

    I dont really care. Id be happy they got rid of him so I dont have to see this thread every 2 months. The timing is perfect too. Is it Staals fault we are golfing now? Just asking.

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    Default Re: Jordan Staal

    Not at all his fault. When Sid went down, Geno put the team on his back and carried them. When Geno went down, Sid took the team on his back and carried them. When they both went down, it should have been the other high draft pick center to put them on his shoulders and carry them...he didnt/couldnt.

    I have been *****ing about Staal since the day they gave him that new contract...this early exit from the playoffs has nothing to do with it at all.
    The only player in the NHL more overpaid than MAF is Jordan Staal

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    Default

    Why not just bump up an old thread then? There are plenty of them here...

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    Default Re: Jordan Staal

    Quote Originally Posted by Beezy View Post
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    Why not just bump up an old thread then? There are plenty of them here...
    Because the old threads while regarding Jordan Staal don't have anything to do with the current situation.

    The current situation as I just posted over on Facebook is that the Pens have a ton of players to resign, holes to fill (Top 6 winger) and less than $4 million in cap space.

    Dupuis, Talbot, Rupp, Kennedy, Godard, Asham, Adams, Conner, Jeffrey, Comrie

    All have contracts that are expiring. All of them (Godard not so much, but if they continue to keep forcing Ben Lovejoy down our throats instead of Deryk Engelland, we will need an enforcer played good minutes and roles this year and combined they all cost more than $4 million per season. WBS doesn't have the grit guys. Conner isn't really an every day NHL player he's a career minor league that can fill injury spots. The same might go for Dustin Jeffrey as well, so we have to fill roles from the outside.

    Right now we can't afford to do it accurately and to compete with some of these other teams we have to have good, strong depth.

    I think 419 said it, Staal is going to make more than $ million per year on his next contract after the 2012-13 season. we technically don't have to trade him now, but why wait when you can solve all of your problems now and really not lose much?

    We wouldn't be having this conversation had Ray Shero not screwed up the 20o6 draft and instead taken Towes. Guy produces as a winger and produces all of his points against top defensive and offensive pairings playing in the Top 6. None of those Staal does or does with any sort of consistency you need from a Top 6 forward. Towes also was nominated for a Selke which was pretty much about the only thing that Staal had going for himself. We had a Top 3 ranked PK when Staal was injured so we proved that we don't need him for that. Hell, the PK has sucked balls the last 2 years in the Playoffs when it's needed most WITH Staal in the lineup. So, it's fair to question the need to carry him.

    I've been all for trading Staal a while ago. I'm certainly no scout but there's no way a pro scout could watch Staal's game and see the skill set necessary to project the guy to produce a lot more than he does. His shot is terrible and inaccurate, He lacks the grit, determination and desire to pl;ay a true power forward role and no signs that suggest he will ever develop it. His vision has always been lacking as far as puck distribution and passing ...

    I don't know. I don't hate the guy and I really wanted him to step up when Sid and Geno went down. I never expected him to produce near Sid or Geno's range but then again he was drafted 2nd overall and guys like Jonathan Towes are expected to produce more or higher than Staal despite differences in salary ($ million to Towes $6.3 that he actually earned without hope and future projections). I hoped that Staal would come into his own or become more of that player that the media and his fan base hype him up to be and it just didn't happen.

    What will probably happen is he won't be traded and will be given the chance to skate with Geno and will be considered Geno's "winger" that he's going to need next season. Basically repeat the 2010 offseason with us having the addition of James Neal inn the Top 6 and possibly seeing some new faces in the bottom 6
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    Default Re: Jordan Staal

    I think part of the problem is that too many people put unrealistic expectations on him. When both Geno and Sid went down, all of sudden Staal is supposed to be a 100pt player. Never gonna happen and I never expected it to happen, so the fact that he HASN'T produced at that pace, is not a major disappointment to me.

    I think his total ice presence makes him a solid player on this team. Does he cost too much? Depends on how you value players.

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    Default Re: Jordan Staal

    I give up on Staal. I was a long time defender of his. I made excuse after excuse for him. For 2 or 3 seasons I said, "Relax, he's still very young." After that it was "he can be so awesome if he can learn how to use his size."

    The latter is still true, but if he doesn't care to use it by now, then he NEVER will, so **** him.

    Having said that, if Jordan Staal was an actual third liner, and GETTING PAID like a third line center, I would still love him. He's a good penalty killer, and a good faceoff guy. But we can find a bunch of those for a lot less than $4 million/year.

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    Default Re: Jordan Staal

    Quote Originally Posted by exNCite View Post
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    I think part of the problem is that too many people put unrealistic expectations on him. When both Geno and Sid went down, all of sudden Staal is supposed to be a 100pt player. Never gonna happen and I never expected it to happen, so the fact that he HASN'T produced at that pace, is not a major disappointment to me.

    I think his total ice presence makes him a solid player on this team. Does he cost too much? Depends on how you value players.
    A number 2 overall draft pick is supposed to be a stud.

    Owen Nolan, Pat Falloon, Alexei Yashin, Chris Pronger, Oleg Tverdosky, Wade Redden, Andrei Zyuzin, Patrick Marleau, Daniel Sedin, Danny Heatley, Jason Spezza, Kari Lehtonen, Eric Staal, Evgeni Malkin, Bobby Ryan, Jordan Staal, James Van Reimsdyk, Drew Doughty, Victor Hedman, Taylor Seguin

    These are the last 20 #2 overall picks, With the exception of Staal, Falloon and Zyuzin, all of those guys worked out pretty decent...(still too early to tell about Seguin).

    Even with all of this, I would be perfectly happy with Jordan Staal on this team if he was making $2 mil per year. But he isn't and therefore he is going to continue to be a hot topic of debate until we either get rid of him, or he starts producing like a $4mil guy should produce.
    The only player in the NHL more overpaid than MAF is Jordan Staal

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    Default Re: Jordan Staal

    Quote Originally Posted by exNCite View Post
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    I think part of the problem is that too many people put unrealistic expectations on him. When both Geno and Sid went down, all of sudden Staal is supposed to be a 100pt player. Never gonna happen and I never expected it to happen, so the fact that he HASN'T produced at that pace, is not a major disappointment to me.

    I think his total ice presence makes him a solid player on this team. Does he cost too much? Depends on how you value players.
    That's a lot of ice time for the little production he provided. When you log that much ice time as a Top 6 forward, especially as a Center, you should produce more.

    We have to keep in mind that he was drafted 2nd Overall. We passed up Jonathan Towes, a natural winger that has produced more points in every single season he's played than Staal ever has. That to me is a reasonable comparison. That's the type of Offensive production we should be getting from Staal, on the 2nd or 1st line, not his annual 3rd line production of 40-49 points per season because he can't produce at the same clip as a Top 6 forward.

    5th Season into his career and there's really been no improvement to his offensive game and production whatsoever. We simply can't afford $4 million per year 3rd Line centers, not when we have 2 holes in the winger department on the Top 2 lines after Kunitz and Neal. Staal can't fill those positions, he's terrible as a winger. He can't fill those as a Center because he's overmatched badly as a Center on a productive scoring line no matter who his wingers are. I mean, Bylsma took him away from Neal and Kovalev in a hurry in favor of Mark Letestu who in his own right has no business centering the Top 6 except that there's no disguising the fact that Letestu is there because of injuries.

    I can't justify paying the price for Jordan Staal when we have less than $4 million available in cap space and a number of players to resign and also sign to fill holes. We keep Jordan Staal and his $4 million contract, that means that we are going to short sell ourselves somewhere else by having to find cheaper production for other meaningful positions
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    Default Re: Jordan Staal

    Quote Originally Posted by El Sid View Post
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    I give up on Staal. I was a long time defender of his. I made excuse after excuse for him. For 2 or 3 seasons I said, "Relax, he's still very young." After that it was "he can be so awesome if he can learn how to use his size."

    The latter is still true, but if he doesn't care to use it by now, then he NEVER will, so **** him.

    Having said that, if Jordan Staal was an actual third liner, and GETTING PAID like a third line center, I would still love him. He's a good penalty killer, and a good faceoff guy. But we can find a bunch of those for a lot less than $4 million/year.
    5 seasons in and Staal is no more a power forward now than he was then. There's really nothing that shows that he will ever becomes a consistent power forward or even resemble one more than just being a tall guy. He was given his contract based on projections that haven't really been realized and judging his play since, I don't really see any projections showing his game improving much more, at least not enough to suggest that when his contract expires in 2 seasons that we should hand him the raise he's going to demand. Perhaps he figures it out later in his career when he hits his prime but that's at least 5 years away

    We heard for years the ridiculous and stupid Staal vs. Malkin arguments and I was just thinking of those right now because we just saw this team on Jiordan Staal's shoulders and with the availability of good wingers and he didn't come close to producing and putting the team on his back like Malkin has done. Even when Malkin slumps and is seemingly invisilbe, his mere presence on the ice is enough to open the game up for the wingers on his line because he's viewed as and considered that much of a threat. You watch Neal and Kovalev in the playoffs and Neal was snakebitten and Kovalev was his usual half-assed floating self BUT Kovalev's game is like Petr Sykora, he needs time and space and he can create that also with the right guys. Mark Letestu creatied no time and space for Kovalev and Neal and any they created for Letestu was pointless. Staal was the same way when he was briefly paired with Neal and Kovalev.

    I'm just sort of surprised that they didn't try Staal again with Neal and Kovalev in the playoffs. That 2nd line woulda been fine, especially since Tyler Kennedy was the one really carrying it with his speed
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    Default Re: Jordan Staal

    ... and Staal's salary could have gone towards keeping Malone.

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