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Thread: Where Does Bob Nutting Go From Here?

      
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    carney2's Avatar
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    Default Where Does Bob Nutting Go From Here?

    Dejan K. ( sorry, I can't spell it without looking it up - and I'm too lazy for that) had a discussion with Bob Nutting after the Pirates' brain trust had their big pow-wow

    http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_745780.html

    DK says he likes what he heard. So, what does Nutting do now?

    Bob Nutting has been Al Capone, Jesse James, Adolph Hitler - the bad guy in chief - for virtually all of his tenure as Bucco in chief. It's almost as if he was the architect of each of those 18 consecutive losing seasons. He has always said "we will spend when the time is right" or words to that effect. Is the time now right? Does it make any difference?

    With one weekend series to go before the all-star break, our heretofore bumbling Buccos are a whodathunk?!! one game out of first in the NL Central. Even so, they have more problems than Bayer has aspirin tablets. Most of those problems are on the offensive side. All of the decisions trail right back to Nutting regardless of the question that is asked:

    Is the current state of the Pittsburgh Baseball Club a signal that a sleeping giant has awakened, or has the City of Pittsburgh captured lightning in a bottle? Will the Pirates now be consistent contenders or is this train running way ahead of schedule - or worse yet, could it be a one-time convergence of cosmic forces that will not be experienced again in [fill in your own very large number] years?

    If it's the latter, can this opportunity be ignored?

    All concerned are in agreement that the future will not be mortgaged to feed the present. How do you get something without giving up something? Perhaps we can package Lyle Overbay, Matt Diaz and a player to be named later for a big bat that will be playing in Phoenix next Tuesday. (That's me and/or you being awakened from dreamland.) Or, more likely, perhaps the Pirates package some flashy maybes from down on the farm for some 30-something has-been and pray.

    Does it matter? Can the Pirates come up with enough to carry them to the finish line no matter what they do? Can Huntington just walk out into the North Shore back 40 and pluck a plum or two off the talent tree? Speaking of lightning in a bottle, how much should they count on Alvarez, Doumit, Pearce, etc. returning from their hiatus and hitting like young Babe Ruths or Ted Williams?

    Now, the key question, after all the July thrashing around has been completed and the dust has settled, with the Pirates a probable non-competitive fourth in the NL Central and under .500 for the 19th consecutive year, does Bob Nutting put on his villain costume once more and resume his position as the object of our disaffection? Did he fail to do what needed to be done? Did he renig on his promise to pony up when the ponying was needed? Could he/should he have done more?

    The only day that I would trade places with Bob Nutting would be pay day.
    Last edited by carney2; Jul-08-2011 at 11:10 AM.

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    Default Re: Where Does Bob Nutting Go From Here?

    Something to consider here that I haven't seen throw out there yet. We have all been focused on the offense due to poor starts and long slumps from nearly everyone, but we now sit 3 games over with 3 to go till the break. We have quite a few hitters coming back fairly soon after the deadline, some before. Some of those guys are power hitters in Doumit and Alvarez.

    Overbay, Diaz, Jones all seem to be coming around. Even guys like Wood, Fort Mckenry, and even Ronny seem to be contributing. We have a young OF we brought up in Presley that might deserve a chance to play RF full time down the line.

    So I throw this out there for discussion....would it be worth to look at acquiring an upgrade for the rotation for the stretch? Morton has been looking like he could go either way over the last month or so and I would say McDonald isn't very consistent. Is there a stud SP rent a player out there that could make the staff even better and we could rely on our current group of hitters and those coming back to perform better than they did the second half?

    Just a thought I guess.

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    Default Re: Where Does Bob Nutting Go From Here?

    "Speaking of lightning in a bottle, how much should they count on Alvarez, Doumit, Pearce, etc. returning from their hiatus and hitting like young Babe Ruths or Ted Williams?"

    Alvarez and Doumit are missed, assuming that they will play up to expectations and Pearce was starting to show what he was worth. Can Pearce stay healthy?

    "So I throw this out there for discussion....would it be worth to look at acquiring an upgrade for the rotation for the stretch? Morton has been looking like he could go either way over the last month or so and I would say McDonald isn't very consistent. Is there a stud SP rent a player out there that could make the staff even better and we could rely on our current group of hitters and those coming back to perform better than they did the second half?"

    Not a terrible thought process at all!
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    Default Re: Where Does Bob Nutting Go From Here?

    Would Erik Bedard from Seattle be an upgrade over McDonald or a better insurance policy other than Brad Lincoln should Morton completely soil the sheets?

    He is on a one year one million dollar contract. He currently is on their 15 day DL, expected back right after the break, with a tweaked left knee. He is a LH that sits at 4-6 on the year, has 90 innings pitched, 85 K's, and only 26BB. His ERA is 3 flat and and his WHIP is 1.11.

    Seattle is currently 43-45, around the same as us, but have TExas and the Angels ahead of them. If they start tanking toward the deadline might be worth a look at Bedard.

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    Default Re: Where Does Bob Nutting Go From Here?

    Quote Originally Posted by carney2 View Post
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    Dejan K. ( sorry, I can't spell it without looking it up - and I'm too lazy for that) had a discussion with Bob Nutting after the Pirates' brain trust had their big pow-wow

    http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_745780.html

    DK says he likes what he heard. So, what does Nutting do now?

    Bob Nutting has been Al Capone, Jesse James, Adolph Hitler - the bad guy in chief - for virtually all of his tenure as Bucco in chief. It's almost as if he was the architect of each of those 18 consecutive losing seasons. He has always said "we will spend when the time is right" or words to that effect. Is the time now right? Does it make any difference?

    With one weekend series to go before the all-star break, our heretofore bumbling Buccos are a whodathunk?!! one game out of first in the NL Central. Even so, they have more problems than Bayer has aspirin tablets. Most of those problems are on the offensive side. All of the decisions trail right back to Nutting regardless of the question that is asked:

    Is the current state of the Pittsburgh Baseball Club a signal that a sleeping giant has awakened, or has the City of Pittsburgh captured lightning in a bottle? Will the Pirates now be consistent contenders or is this train running way ahead of schedule - or worse yet, could it be a one-time convergence of cosmic forces that will not be experienced again in [fill in your own very large number] years?

    If it's the latter, can this opportunity be ignored?

    All concerned are in agreement that the future will not be mortgaged to feed the present. How do you get something without giving up something? Perhaps we can package Lyle Overbay, Matt Diaz and a player to be named later for a big bat that will be playing in Phoenix next Tuesday. (That's me and/or you being awakened from dreamland.) Or, more likely, perhaps the Pirates package some flashy maybes from down on the farm for some 30-something has-been and pray.

    Does it matter? Can the Pirates come up with enough to carry them to the finish line no matter what they do? Can Huntington just walk out into the North Shore back 40 and pluck a plum or two off the talent tree? Speaking of lightning in a bottle, how much should they count on Alvarez, Doumit, Pearce, etc. returning from their hiatus and hitting like young Babe Ruths or Ted Williams?

    Now, the key question, after all the July thrashing around has been completed and the dust has settled, with the Pirates a probable non-competitive fourth in the NL Central and under .500 for the 19th consecutive year, does Bob Nutting put on his villain costume once more and resume his position as the object of our disaffection? Did he fail to do what needed to be done? Did he renig on his promise to pony up when the ponying was needed? Could he/should he have done more?

    The only day that I would trade places with Bob Nutting would be pay day.

    I have to say Carney, I liked what you wrote as well and I agree in full with your last statement that you would only trade places with Bob Nutting on pay day. I said the same thing when they hired Neal Huntington, not too long afterwards on the old Trib board. I said that I would hate to be in his shoes because I wanted to see the Pirates do a complete gut and rebuild like Milwaukee or Florida or Oakland at that time and really what Tampa Bay was doing at the time. A true rebuild was going to to be tough for any GM to do here because the fan base was so impatient and it would take a while.

    One thing about DK's article I didn't really care much for was..

    There's a difference. A couple of years ago, when Gayo and the Pirates were chasing hotshot Dominican prospect Miguel Sano, Nutting told me he "hoped" the team would land the player. A month later, in part because the front office fretted over whether they were bidding against themselves, they lost their guy. Hope wasn't enough. A bold owner would have ensured that deal got done.

    I've always stood by that Sano's agent was hellbent on getting his good buddy from Minnesota Sano and that had we been able to actually counter the offer that Sano's agent accepted from Minnesota we'd have outbid them. Now, if anyone is to blame for how that all unraveled it was Neal Huntington for the way he did the negotiating against himself approach. An owner IMO shouldn't be involved in this stuff. I hate owners like Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Hank Steinbrenner, Daniel Snyder etc... who get too involved with decisions when they have no business doing so. Bob Nutting isn't a baseball guy, he's a business guy. An owner, i don't want him making baseball related decisions, I want him to be approving the budget and evaluating the job and success overall of the guys he has hired to do the baseball stuff - Frank and Neal.

    Too much IMO is put on Bob Nutting to do or take part in the baseba;ll part by fans and writers alike and these are also the same people that will prop up someone like Dan Rooney or Art Rooney II for not being Dan Snyder or Jerry Jones. It's a double standard.

    The key thing one needs to keep in mind is that the budget is there, it's up to Frank and Neal to spend it how they see fit, not Bob Nutting. Just like recently with the Pens, they could've offered Jagr more money and Mario and Burkle probably would've supported that, but it was up to the GM to make the ultimate call and spend the funds (which were available to sign or not sign the player). The same is now. the funds are available to sign players and gain salary via trade but it's not about money as much as it is adding the right player and the cost as far as prospects that would have to be given up. A player that's younger is of more value to the Pirates but would cost far more in better prospects. His salary isn't even the question.
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    Default Re: Where Does Bob Nutting Go From Here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Pittsburgh View Post
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    So I throw this out there for discussion....would it be worth to look at acquiring an upgrade for the rotation for the stretch? Morton has been looking like he could go either way over the last month or so and I would say McDonald isn't very consistent. Is there a stud SP rent a player out there that could make the staff even better and we could rely on our current group of hitters and those coming back to perform better than they did the second half?

    Just a thought I guess.
    im one of the believe that the pitching staff wont hold up for an entire season. Whether it's that they are overachieving right now or outside of Maholm that arm fatigue because of innings increasing takes affect.

    We have Brad Lincoln and we have Ross Ohlendorf who is starting to throw agao. Unless we give up c-level type prospects i dont want to be adding to the pitching, because it's crowded field now and in the future. I'd be looking at trying to upgrade offense since its something we would have to be doing in the offseason anyways. PResent and future thinking
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    Default Re: Where Does Bob Nutting Go From Here?

    I saw this bit of mental retardation today ...

    So does a package of Alvarez, Meek, Lincoln and Allie fetch Hunter Pence?
    Only Dave Littlefield would be stupid enough to make a trade lie that. While Pence would be nice, he's not worth 2 #1 overall picks with very limited MLB experience south of the age of 26 (Pedro and Lincoln), last years lone Pirates all-star in Meek and a #2 pick from last year that we paid Top 5 slot money to sign last year (Allie).

    Stupid and ignorant statements like this quote is what would send the Pirates in the wrong direction. Thinking about the short term present while throwing away the future
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    Default Re: Where Does Bob Nutting Go From Here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Pittsburgh View Post
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    Something to consider here that I haven't seen throw out there yet. We have all been focused on the offense due to poor starts and long slumps from nearly everyone, but we now sit 3 games over with 3 to go till the break. We have quite a few hitters coming back fairly soon after the deadline, some before. Some of those guys are power hitters in Doumit and Alvarez.

    Overbay, Diaz, Jones all seem to be coming around. Even guys like Wood, Fort Mckenry, and even Ronny seem to be contributing. We have a young OF we brought up in Presley that might deserve a chance to play RF full time down the line.

    So I throw this out there for discussion....would it be worth to look at acquiring an upgrade for the rotation for the stretch? Morton has been looking like he could go either way over the last month or so and I would say McDonald isn't very consistent. Is there a stud SP rent a player out there that could make the staff even better and we could rely on our current group of hitters and those coming back to perform better than they did the second half?

    Just a thought I guess.

    I'm curious as to why you're taking Jmac to task.

    He's our #5 starter, and since May 1, his ERA is 3.21 (my math may be off be a hundreth or so).

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/...tW94A9FZWFCLcF

    Like anyone, he has a couple rough starts, but I think he's great for a 5th starter. Actually I think he pitches a lot better than the average 5th starter in the league.

    I used since May 1 as a reference point because, as we recall, he was dinged up in ST and didn't get a normal ST and, for intents and purposes, used his starts in April as a psuedo ST.

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    Default Re: Where Does Bob Nutting Go From Here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Pittsburgh View Post
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    Would Erik Bedard from Seattle be an upgrade over McDonald or a better insurance policy other than Brad Lincoln should Morton completely soil the sheets?

    He is on a one year one million dollar contract. He currently is on their 15 day DL, expected back right after the break, with a tweaked left knee. He is a LH that sits at 4-6 on the year, has 90 innings pitched, 85 K's, and only 26BB. His ERA is 3 flat and and his WHIP is 1.11.

    Seattle is currently 43-45, around the same as us, but have TExas and the Angels ahead of them. If they start tanking toward the deadline might be worth a look at Bedard.
    Bedard is hurt (again) and any starting pitcher with a pulse is going to cost way more than he's worth. I'd like to see them pick up a blocked prospect like Alonso of the Reds. That makes the most sense going forward. Of course, it's unlikely the Reds will want to trade with us, but you get the idea.

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    Default Re: Where Does Bob Nutting Go From Here?

    Quote Originally Posted by vandelay industries View Post
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    I'm curious as to why you're taking Jmac to task.

    He's our #5 starter, and since May 1, his ERA is 3.21 (my math may be off be a hundreth or so).

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/...tW94A9FZWFCLcF

    Like anyone, he has a couple rough starts, but I think he's great for a 5th starter. Actually I think he pitches a lot better than the average 5th starter in the league.

    I used since May 1 as a reference point because, as we recall, he was dinged up in ST and didn't get a normal ST and, for intents and purposes, used his starts in April as a psuedo ST.
    I've seen abou every Jmac start and while I like him going forward, he makes me a nervous wreck when he's on the mound. His delivery is inconsistent and he basically relies on fastball/curve. He has a change he rarely throws. When his curve is on, it's devastating, problem is, it's rarely on.

    I like Jmac enough to stick with him, he's still plenty young, but there are a lot of better pitchers out there currently.

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    Default Re: Where Does Bob Nutting Go From Here?

    while our farm system is getting deeper its no where near deep enough to start trading them away to get a bat or pitcher that is of high enough quality to make a difference in the w/l column. We cant just go out and get a nice bat or nice pitcher, you need to get an impact bat or pitcher. Someone who can turn Losses into Wins or just flat out get you ahead from start to finish. We really dont have any ability to do that yet.

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    Default Re: Where Does Bob Nutting Go From Here?

    Quote Originally Posted by jleisele58 View Post
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    while our farm system is getting deeper its no where near deep enough to start trading them away to get a bat or pitcher that is of high enough quality to make a difference in the w/l column. We cant just go out and get a nice bat or nice pitcher, you need to get an impact bat or pitcher. Someone who can turn Losses into Wins or just flat out get you ahead from start to finish. We really dont have any ability to do that yet.
    I agree 110%. If we're going to get an impact player in the rotation or on offense, it's going to have to be in the off season via free agency. We just don't have anything to give away right now. I would not even be considering talking about a "rent-a-player" right now unless it made us serious World Series contenders. Right now, I don't even think A-Rod would do that.

    Just enjoy the season for what it is: An unexpected success so far, and a bright look at the future.

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    Default Re: Where Does Bob Nutting Go From Here?

    I was all for picking up a bat in a trade,but I changed my thinking. I'd just as soon get the Guys back from the D.L. and see how things shake out.
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    Default Re: Where Does Bob Nutting Go From Here?

    Quote Originally Posted by jleisele58 View Post
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    while our farm system is getting deeper its no where near deep enough to start trading them away to get a bat or pitcher that is of high enough quality to make a difference in the w/l column. We cant just go out and get a nice bat or nice pitcher, you need to get an impact bat or pitcher. Someone who can turn Losses into Wins or just flat out get you ahead from start to finish. We really dont have any ability to do that yet.
    I completely agree with that.

    I don't want to give up a guy who can become a long-term player in a couple of years for a bat or pitcher who will be here for a season and then split afterwards. Even with that one bat or arm, we aren't guaranteed a spot in the postseason.

    I just hope if anything, the Pirates stand pat and don't become sellers.

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