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Thread: What now?

      
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    Default What now?

    Here are some things I would do if I were Hurdle:

    1) Remove Charlie Morton from the rotation. Now. Not good for ol' Lectric stuff, but good for the team. The Bucs are flirting with contention and cannot prioritize the development of a struggling pitcher over giving the team the best chance to win. Mcutchen, Lincoln, or possibly Ohlendorf would be a good replacement for Morton in the rotation.

    2) Make Brandon Wood the regular third-baseman. Defensively, he is clearly the best option. He has shown signs of breaking out of his slump and has a power bat unlike Harrison and D'Arnaud. Pedro is a drag on this team now and should be sent back to Indy. The Bucs are flirting with contention and cannot prioritize the development of a struggling power hitter over giving the team the best chance to win.

    3) Of course, give Ludwick most of the starts in RF and Lee at 1B and make Alex Presley the every day LF when he returns.

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    Default Re: What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by tocchet92 View Post
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    Here are some things I would do if I were Hurdle:

    1) Remove Charlie Morton from the rotation. Now. Not good for ol' Lectric stuff, but good for the team. The Bucs are flirting with contention and cannot prioritize the development of a struggling pitcher over giving the team the best chance to win. Mcutchen, Lincoln, or possibly Ohlendorf would be a good replacement for Morton in the rotation.

    2) Make Brandon Wood the regular third-baseman. Defensively, he is clearly the best option. He has shown signs of breaking out of his slump and has a power bat unlike Harrison and D'Arnaud. Pedro is a drag on this team now and should be sent back to Indy. The Bucs are flirting with contention and cannot prioritize the development of a struggling power hitter over giving the team the best chance to win.

    3) Of course, give Ludwick most of the starts in RF and Lee at 1B and make Alex Presley the every day LF when he returns.
    Ross Ohlendorf isn't really close. Not close enough to really use yet. Still can't throw strikes in his rehab stints. McCutchen is too valuable as long relief in the pen especially as long as we have James McDonald in the lineup unable to go 6 full Innings all year long. Morton also had a far better month of July than he did in June too. The pitcher that has had the worst numbers on the pitching Staff this past month is Kevin Correia. 6.08 ERA in the month of July with a 1.65 WHIP.

    Pitching staff in general is a concern because the consistency isn't there right now and neither are the IP's but Brad Lincoln should get first call if pitchers continue to either struggle or having continuing issues last long in games. One problem with Morton (and McDonald) is that they are only going 5 IPs which is taxing on a Bullpen. Morton they have been holding his Pitch Count for the msot part in the 80's only increasing it the past 2 games
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    Default Re: What now?

    To me, for now, Morton is still the best option. He did not pitch well in Philly but his body of work this year has been encouraging. McDonald also struggled in Philly. If Charley continues to struggle a change could be made.

    McCutchen is valuable in the bullpen and has not been stretched out to start recently. Lincoln got lit up yesterday (I still like him but he is no sure thing to be better than Charlie. Ohlie is still rehabbing.

    I don't know that Wood has been in a career long slump or if he is just not very good but I do not have high expectations for him. It can be painful to watch Pedro but longterm the team's future is tied to his power potential. There is no Plan B other than him that I can see.

    IMHO, if the Bucs have any hopes of contending this year, Morton and Alvarez need to be contributors.

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    Default Re: What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by CPA17 View Post
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    IMHO, if the Bucs have any hopes of contending this year, Morton and Alvarez need to be contributors.
    Most definitely.

    We can do all we want at the Trade Deadline but there's so much more room for improvement with we currently have. Pedro needs to step up, the pitching staff (if it can) needs to become more consistent. I can forgive a bad start per month, but the rest need to be Quality starts (we need 6 IPs on average from the starters).
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    Default Re: What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by CPA17 View Post
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    To me, for now, Morton is still the best option. He did not pitch well in Philly but his body of work this year has been encouraging. McDonald also struggled in Philly. If Charley continues to struggle a change could be made.

    McCutchen is valuable in the bullpen and has not been stretched out to start recently. Lincoln got lit up yesterday (I still like him but he is no sure thing to be better than Charlie. Ohlie is still rehabbing.

    I don't know that Wood has been in a career long slump or if he is just not very good but I do not have high expectations for him. It can be painful to watch Pedro but longterm the team's future is tied to his power potential. There is no Plan B other than him that I can see.

    IMHO, if the Bucs have any hopes of contending this year, Morton and Alvarez need to be contributors.
    Mcutchen pitched seven scoreless innings in the 19 inning game. He is stretched out and pitching well.

    The Pirates played very well and put themselves in contention without Alvarez. There is ample reason to hope that they can continue to play at the same level without Alvarez.

    I can see the logic behind the Bucs needing Morton, however, the Morton that I saw against Philly was the 2010 Morton. His body language and demeanor as he was getting shelled looked like the sad-sack Charley of old.

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    Default Re: What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by tocchet92 View Post
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    The Pirates played very well and put themselves in contention without Alvarez. There is ample reason to hope that they can continue to play at the same level without Alvarez.
    True but using that logic, the Pirates shouldn't have made any moves at the Trade Deadline or shouldn't be doing anything with the starting rotation that you are mentioning since they've won without needing Ohlendorf or McCutchen as a starters etc...



    Quote Originally Posted by tocchet92 View Post
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    Mcutchen pitched seven scoreless innings in the 19 inning game. He is stretched out and pitching well.
    I think it was only about 5 IPS, but coming into a game against a poor hitting Atlanta team in the 14th inning, isn't exactly the same as being stretched out to pitch regularly in the starting rotation



    Quote Originally Posted by tocchet92 View Post
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    I can see the logic behind the Bucs needing Morton, however, the Morton that I saw against Philly was the 2010 Morton. His body language and demeanor as he was getting shelled looked like the sad-sack Charley of old.
    He's had some starts this season where's he looked bad. All of the starters have but that's no reason to really write off the entire body of work either. I don't see any mention of Kevin Correia riding the pine and he's pitched worse as a whole this month. Charlie will struggle learning command from the new delivery and such but until games like the Phillies one become back to back to back occurances, I don't see why we should gamble shaking up the rotation for what is a bigger question mark.
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    Default Re: What now?

    The assertion was we cannot contend without Pedro. With Pedro being a drag on the offense and subpar defensively, I think we can continue to contend without him. Its not an accross-the-board, one size fits all ratinale. I was talking about Pedro.

    You're right about D McCutchen. He pitched 5.1 innings and gave up a run in that 19 inning game. However, he threw 92 pitches. He's stretched out enough to start.

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    Default Re: What now?

    I don't at all like pulling Charlie and Pedro based on what we've seen so far this year. Plain and simple, they both need ML experience. I understand your frustrations and the tendency to want to press to win now. I tend to see this year as a blessing...the pennant chase feel is great experience, and experience that can't be duplicated...and needed for those two.

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    Default Re: What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by just_ridin View Post
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    I don't at all like pulling Charlie and Pedro based on what we've seen so far this year. Plain and simple, they both need ML experience. I understand your frustrations and the tendency to want to press to win now. I tend to see this year as a blessing...the pennant chase feel is great experience, and experience that can't be duplicated...and needed for those two.
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    Default Re: What now?

    If we can get hot again, we could easily get back into this. August is critical. We have 7 games each against the Brewers and Cards plus having 3 games in hand compared to the Brewers and two compared to the Cards.

    Twenty four of the next 29 games are within the division.

    It'll be tough, but it can be done.

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    Default Re: What now?

    I think another key missing piece of the puzzle is Alex Presley.

    The team got real hot when he joined them, and fizzled when he had to leave.
    He really jump started the offense in that leadoff spot.
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    Default Re: What now?

    The entire point of this season is to get key players their major league experience so they can help us for years to come. We should be concerned with real goals (contending for several years) rather than elusive goals (winning this season) or meaningless goals (finishing .500). IMO benching Alvarez and Morton for perceived short term goals doesn't help this team in the long run.

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    Default Re: What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaker100 View Post
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    The entire point of this season is to get key players their major league experience so they can help us for years to come.
    Says who? Evidently Hurdle and Huntington don't think so, otherwise they would not have brought in Derrick Lee and Ryan Ludwick. They are in a weak division and have a chance to win it.

    The "entire point" is winning. As NH has described, to build a sustained winning team. This doesn't mean mortgaging the future by trading Tailion or Allie for Hunter Pence. It does mean making wise personnel decisions and making an honest effort to win this season.

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    Default Re: What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by tocchet92 View Post
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    The "entire point" is winning. As NH has described, to build a sustained winning team.
    So you're saying that a sustained winning team isn't going to include Charlie Morton in the rotation, and will have Brandon Wood at 3rd base instead of Pedro Alvarez?

    Morton's had 2 poor starts (against potent lineups), and Alvarez still has less than a year at the ML level under his belt...yet you want to ignore this year's body of work from Morton, and would rather give playing time to someone who has as many career HR's at the ML level in 5 seasons as Pedro has in half of one.

    Are your legs sore from that many knee-jerks?

    Lee and Ludwick are signs that the FO wants to play better ball....but are clear signs that we're not going all-out to win. Benching 2 players that you hope to be keys to a sustained winning effort just doesn't make sense.

    You're complaining that they don't have the chops to compete in a pennant race...when and where are they supposed to get the ML experience that will make them seasoned players?

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    Default Re: What now?

    What now....WHAT NOW???? WE WIN THE WHOLE ****ING THING!!!!

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