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Thread: According to Bowden Pirates/Redsox Deal done.

      
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    Default According to Bowden Pirates/Redsox Deal done.

    On Twitter Jim Bowden says Hanrahan to Boston for Pimental and Sands. Jerry Sands was the player to be named later in the Redsox/Dodgers trade last year. He is a power hitting Right fielder who is looked at with a high ceiling with a plus arm but who strikes out a lot.
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    Default According to Bowden Pirates/Redsox Deal done.

    Just read that 2 more players are coming to the Pirates, but no names yet


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    Default Re: According to Bowden Pirates/Redsox Deal done.

    Stolmy Pimentel, Jerry Sands Heading To Pittsburgh For Hanrahan

    Jim Bowden confirms that Jerry Sands is part of the deal for Pittsburgh Pirates' closer Joel Hanrahan, and adds that another player on the 40-man -- one we've speculated could be included -- is headed to the Bucs as well. Pitching prospect Stolmy Pimentel, who has seen his career and stock slip since he was protected from the Rule 5 draft by the Red Sox a couple of years ago, is reportedly also part of the package for Hanrahan.


    Pimentel still shows promise -- he's the #20 prospect in Boston's organization at Sox Prospects -- and is just going to be 23 years old in 2013, but he's incredibly inconsistent, and might not be a major-league arm at all. The thing is, if the Red Sox designated him for assignment, someone would just scoop him up, regardless of his struggles. He was also in line to use the last of his three options, meaning that if he didn't pitch himself into a major-league job all at once this year, Boston was going to have to put him in the majors or lose him just the same. Rather than see Pimentel go away for nothing, in order to get the 40-man spot back, he was destined to be included in one trade or another. It appears that this particular trade will do the trick.
    Nothing is official yet, but Bowden seems to have a source in Pittsburgh's front office feeding him information quicker consistently.


    [Update 4:55: Jon Heyman reports the Pirates will receive four players in total from the Red Sox, with one other besides Hanrahan coming to Boston. No names are given, but you'd likely be safe in thinking that at least one of them is a reliever, given Boston's pen was overflowing even prior to getting Hanrahan, and the Pirates are in need of bullpen help. Clayton Mortensen is out of options, so he's a likely candidate.]

    By Marc Normandin on Dec 22, 4:35p Redsox SB Nation

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    Default Re: According to Bowden Pirates/Redsox Deal done.

    So thats 2 0f the 4 players, Stolmy sounds like he will be working at Walmart next year and Sands is too unpredictable to be of any use......

    Am I missing out on something here or does it seem like we are getting hosed on this deal so far?

    Correct me if Im wrong but wasnt Hanny a 2x Allstar and thats the last two previous years?

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    Default According to Bowden Pirates/Redsox Deal done.

    As a stand alone, very underwhelming. We now have 4 players (GI, Sands, Sanchez, and Snider) for 2 spots (RF and 1B). You could even throw in Tabata to that logjam.

    Really makes the 2013 team worse. I'd have rather gone into the year with Hanny and played it out. If we're in it at the deadline, then wonderful, we keep him and see where the season would take us. If out, we could've gotten rid if him then to a possibly larger market of teams. I just don't understand how we can make acquisitions to help immediately in 2013 (Martin and Liriano) but then turn around and make a trade that weakens the team.

    NH had no leverage in this deal and the return shows. A trade at the deadline may have had more suitors.

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    Default Re: According to Bowden Pirates/Redsox Deal done.

    Quote Originally Posted by vandelay industries View Post
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    As a stand alone, very underwhelming. We now have 4 players (GI, Sands, Sanchez, and Snider) for 2 spots (RF and 1B). You could even throw in Tabata to that logjam.

    Really makes the 2013 team worse. I'd have rather gone into the year with Hanny and played it out. If we're in it at the deadline, then wonderful, we keep him and see where the season would take us. If out, we could've gotten rid if him then to a possibly larger market of teams. I just don't understand how we can make acquisitions to help immediately in 2013 (Martin and Liriano) but then turn around and make a trade that weakens the team.

    NH had no leverage in this deal and the return shows. A trade at the deadline may have had more suitors.
    I wouldn't have minded seeing Hammer start the season with the team. It seemed though his velocity was slowly dropping and his walks were increasing. With everything I heard on MLB on SiriusXm that Brian Wilson, Chris Perez and a few other closers available are held in higher regard than Hanrahan so his trade value was never higher than last year and is lessening. This probably was his last year in Pittsburgh anyway and I don't believe he is worth $7 million. For one year I think Grilli can be just as good until a young arm is ready, Bryan Morris maybe by the end of the year?

    I'm believing this is the beginning of the end for Tabata though. Sands could platoon with Snider leaving Jones/Sanchez at first. Curious who is going with Hammer to Boston. Clayton Mortenson one of 2 others coming back?
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    Default Re: According to Bowden Pirates/Redsox Deal done.

    Quote Originally Posted by vandelay industries View Post
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    As a stand alone, very underwhelming. We now have 4 players (GI, Sands, Sanchez, and Snider) for 2 spots (RF and 1B). You could even throw in Tabata to that logjam.

    Really makes the 2013 team worse. I'd have rather gone into the year with Hanny and played it out. If we're in it at the deadline, then wonderful, we keep him and see where the season would take us. If out, we could've gotten rid if him then to a possibly larger market of teams. I just don't understand how we can make acquisitions to help immediately in 2013 (Martin and Liriano) but then turn around and make a trade that weakens the team.

    NH had no leverage in this deal and the return shows. A trade at the deadline may have had more suitors.
    Unless Hanrahan had great control, notched a ton of saves and a great ERA at the Trade Deadline, we'd have gotten about the same or worse considering he's likely to get around $6-7 million

    Definitely no leverage in this deal, I think Huntington wanted to get something for sure and not repeat the Matt Capps fiasco where he let Capps walk and got nadda and the 2 sides couldn't comes to terms.

    I'm not sure what to feel about the return. I know Hanrahan's value was low.

    I wouldn't lump Sands in with the Outfielders. He can play OF but he was also rated Top Defensive first baseman in the Midwestern League in the Minors in 2010.

    The only way this weakens the team is if Grilli doesn't get equal success as a closer this season and our setup man stinks (whoever this may be). Other than that, I don't know how this weakens us (yet). If this is our choice over Garrett Jones then yeah it weakens us
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    Default Re: According to Bowden Pirates/Redsox Deal done.

    Quote Originally Posted by airleg1 View Post
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    So thats 2 0f the 4 players, Stolmy sounds like he will be working at Walmart next year and Sands is too unpredictable to be of any use......

    Am I missing out on something here or does it seem like we are getting hosed on this deal so far?

    Correct me if Im wrong but wasnt Hanny a 2x Allstar and thats the last two previous years?
    Stolmy Pilmento looks fairly crappy. Guy throws hard (97) so he fits the NH mold. He lacks pitches and throws better with lower velocity. If you ask me, the guy has bullpen option more than starter
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    Default Re: According to Bowden Pirates/Redsox Deal done.

    I'm trying to wrap my head around this. all I can assume is that we aren't finished yet.

    I was thinkiing about it and Liriano's $7 million equals what we got off the books between Karstens and Hanrahan ($7.1). Barajas and Correia equaled $8 million and Russell Martin costs about $8.5 million.

    So, according to Frank Coonelly we finished the year with a payroll of about $61 million and could touch $70 he said. Grilli's raise was only about $2 million or so since I think it was backloaded. Cutch makes about $4.5 million next year. Which is a $4 million increase. So we have added probably around 6-7 in payroll thusfar. I wouldnt worry about Neil Walker because any deal he signs likely wouldn't kick in until 2014.

    I really don't see how we could sign Garrett Jones at this point. I'd love to, I want to. He made $2.2 millioon last year and his raise after last season should easily double that
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    Default Re: According to Bowden Pirates/Redsox Deal done.

    Melencon is coming in the deal. The former Astros closer had 20 saves and a 2.70 era in 2011.
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    Default Re: According to Bowden Pirates/Redsox Deal done.

    Quote Originally Posted by vandelay industries View Post
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    As a stand alone, very underwhelming. We now have 4 players (GI, Sands, Sanchez, and Snider) for 2 spots (RF and 1B). You could even throw in Tabata to that logjam.

    Really makes the 2013 team worse. I'd have rather gone into the year with Hanny and played it out. If we're in it at the deadline, then wonderful, we keep him and see where the season would take us. If out, we could've gotten rid if him then to a possibly larger market of teams. I just don't understand how we can make acquisitions to help immediately in 2013 (Martin and Liriano) but then turn around and make a trade that weakens the team.

    NH had no leverage in this deal and the return shows. A trade at the deadline may have had more suitors.
    Surely doesn't seem like a very good return. I'm curious about the other player included with Hanrahan. Could be Tabata, could be Jones. If it's either one of those than the trade wasn't any good. Boston got everything in the deal.

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    Default Re: According to Bowden Pirates/Redsox Deal done.

    According to reports (and Steelreign ). Mark Melancon is part fo the deal. suddenly I like the deal because Melancon gives us a setup guy/closer to go with Grilli at the ripe age of 27/28

    I like Mark Melancon to be honest. He'll be 28 by April, he can close and he puts up consistently good peripheral numbers. for some reason his ERA spiked up to 6.20 last season despite having the same K/BB/H - 9 line. Looks like he gave up a lot more Homers than usual, perhaps a Big Green Monster issue? When you see a guy with a 1.26 WHIP and a 6.20 ERA, something is flukey.

    Actually looking further on a hunch, because his xFIP was pretty stable despite an increase of Home runs, I looked and noticed his Fly Ball rate really increased from 21.4% to 26.4% which is why his percentage of Flyballs into Homeruns as part of xFIP didn't change, because his Fly Balll% increased.

    again, the type of guy that plays into Uncle Ray's favor like Liriano, where Ray can get that Groundball rate back up, reduce the Flyball rate and we have a pitcher like the Astros had in 2010 and 2011 that put up a 2.78 and 3.12 ERA
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    Default Re: According to Bowden Pirates/Redsox Deal done.

    From a Boston Blog - Over The Monster

    Mark Melancon will be one of the players headed to the Pittsburgh Pirates in the Joel Hanrahan deal according to Dejan Kovacevic. Assuming this all goes down, the trade will prove an abrupt end to Melancon's time with the Red Sox.

    Melancon has certainly earned no rewards in Boston. A disastrous start and an unspectacular middle left Melancon with a massive 6.20 ERA at the end of the year, though he at least showed some better stuff peripherally and come the end of the year.

    Still, for all that, giving Melancon a roster spot may have been a bit tough with some of the other guys pressing for a pen role. That would make his inclusion in the trade a lot more understandable if it weren't for the Sox getting Joel Hanrahan in return. If Hanrahan had far superior results in 2012, the Pirates closer posted a 4.45 FIP to Melancon's 4.58, and Melancon has a massive lead in terms of xFIP.

    Those peripherals aren't perfect measures by any means, but the point is that right now it seems like the Sox are giving the Pirates a cheap bullpen arm under team control with pretty big question marks for an expensive bullpen arm not under team control also with pretty big question marks. And it's not like the Sox are treating Hanrahan like a dominant closer since they've talked about the need to fix his mechanics.

    Judgement must be reserved until the last two names in the deal are revealed, but this trade adds up less and less the more we learn.



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    Default Re: According to Bowden Pirates/Redsox Deal done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    From a Boston Blog - Over The Monster

    Mark Melancon will be one of the players headed to the Pittsburgh Pirates in the Joel Hanrahan deal according to Dejan Kovacevic. Assuming this all goes down, the trade will prove an abrupt end to Melancon's time with the Red Sox.

    Melancon has certainly earned no rewards in Boston. A disastrous start and an unspectacular middle left Melancon with a massive 6.20 ERA at the end of the year, though he at least showed some better stuff peripherally and come the end of the year.

    Still, for all that, giving Melancon a roster spot may have been a bit tough with some of the other guys pressing for a pen role. That would make his inclusion in the trade a lot more understandable if it weren't for the Sox getting Joel Hanrahan in return. If Hanrahan had far superior results in 2012, the Pirates closer posted a 4.45 FIP to Melancon's 4.58, and Melancon has a massive lead in terms of xFIP.

    Those peripherals aren't perfect measures by any means, but the point is that right now it seems like the Sox are giving the Pirates a cheap bullpen arm under team control with pretty big question marks for an expensive bullpen arm not under team control also with pretty big question marks. And it's not like the Sox are treating Hanrahan like a dominant closer since they've talked about the need to fix his mechanics.

    Judgement must be reserved until the last two names in the deal are revealed, but this trade adds up less and less the more we learn.



    http://www.overthemonster.com/2012/1...ed-sox-pirates
    NH is placing his career on the line. We have needs - we did not address the needs, why make the trade? Salary dump? The more things change, the more they stay the same. Merry Christmas, Boston. As you say, the more we learn, the worse it gets. And, then we actually have to play these guys or else we will make NH look like he got fleeced. He got into intense negotiations and lost his grasp on what he was looking for when he started the process. Sometimes you just need to step back from the table to take a more global look at what is happening.

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    Default Re: According to Bowden Pirates/Redsox Deal done.

    deal still could fall apart....
    screw the pooch!!

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