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Thread: Gonchar Thinks The YP Sucks

      
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    Default Gonchar Thinks The YP Sucks

    http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_656832.html

    Whether in Pittsburgh, Washington, Boston or while playing on numerous Russian national teams, Sergei Gonchar has quarterbacked many dynamic power plays.

    This definitely isn't one of them.

    Has Gonchar ever played on such a talented power play that struggled so much?

    "No," he said, shaking his head. "I don't think there's one thing in particular that's wrong. It's here and there. It can't get any worse."

    The Penguins' power-play conversion rate is a mere 14.3 percent, which ranks 28th out of the NHL's 30 teams. Only Carolina and St. Louis, two of the league's worst teams, have struggled more.

    Many believe the Penguins have become too predictable on the power play. Gonchar always plays the right point, while Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin generally roam the right-wing boards.

    "It's not working for us," Gonchar said. "But at the same time, it has worked many times before."

    Gonchar, however, suggested tactical changes might be coming.

    "We're going to try different things," he said. "Power plays aren't just about shots on goal. You have to battle for the puck. You have to help each other. We have to do better at those things."

    [HIGH-LIGHT] Assistant coach Mike Yeo often receives criticism from fans when the Penguins' power play struggles. While Yeo does work with the power play, coach Dan Bylsma said singling Yeo out is unfair.

    "What we do as a coaching staff is together," Bylsma said. "Mike doesn't get free reign. When we do a practice, I don't have free reign. We're together."[/HIGH-LIGHT]


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    Default Re: Gonchar Thinks The YP Sucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    Many believe the Penguins have become too predictable on the power play. Gonchar always plays the right point, while Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin generally roam the right-wing boards.
    Well,that sure as **** sounds like a coaching issue to me.How is it that Mike Tomlin goes through a ****load of critcism for keeping Arians,Ligashesky,or whoever and Bylsma gets none for keeping Yeo??Hell,Yeo has managed to live through TWO coaches.WTF??

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    Default Re: Gonchar Thinks The YP Sucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Les View Post
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    Well,that sure as **** sounds like a coaching issue to me.How is it that Mike Tomlin goes through a ****load of critcism for keeping Arians,Ligashesky,or whoever and Bylsma gets none for keeping Yeo??Hell,Yeo has managed to live through TWO coaches.WTF??
    Well.... the pens are 21-10-1 and look like reigning champs that always helps out a Head Coach.

    However... at some point this **** ****ing poor YP is going to be a big problem for this team cause they're going to need it and it won't come through and if it hurts the team in the W-L column... Bylsma's gonna get his share just for pointing this out... but Bylsma's been lucky in that the YP hasn't cost them games

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    Default Re: Gonchar Thinks The YP Sucks

    I hate to say this, but I sometimes wonder if our PP system is the way that it is because certain players, not mentioning names, (CAPTAIN) want it that way?

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    Default Re: Gonchar Thinks The YP Sucks

    Quote Originally Posted by (419)BlackNGold View Post
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    I hate to say this, but I sometimes wonder if our PP system is the way that it is because certain players, not mentioning names, (CAPTAIN) want it that way?
    i sometimes wonder that
    The only player in the NHL more overpaid than MAF is Jordan Staal

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    Default Re: Gonchar Thinks The YP Sucks

    Quote Originally Posted by (419)BlackNGold View Post
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    I hate to say this, but I sometimes wonder if our PP system is the way that it is because certain players, not mentioning names, (CAPTAIN) want it that way?
    Well...we know that it's stacked with the best talent on the 1st unit because of Sid's preference...

    but i still think the YP sucks because it fundamentally and scheme wise SUCKS.

    The breakout into the zone is clunky like it is an ad lib on the ice. Once we get into the zone, it doesn't matter where players are positioned the entire YP design is always to get Gonch a shot at the point or a backdoor pass. that's it. The YP spends the entire time in zone trying to set those 2 things up and every team in the league KNOWS that's what we're going to do. So they keep a guy right in front of gonch at all times and have a spy watching for the backdoor pass, not to mention the goalie being completely aware of it.

    That's the YP. That's why it sucks. All of the changes that they make to it are in the form of moving personnel around on the ice or to different places to do the same exact thing they always do and nobody is falling for it.

    They'll never get Gonch open or the backdoor pass to work if they can't draw players out of position to do that. In order to draw players out of position, the scheme of the YP needs to change to getting Geno one time slot shots, Sid getting pucks on net, point shots from Gogo or Letang... planting someone like Mike rupp who is tougher to move in front of the net. Look at all of the good PP's in the league and they always have a guy standing in the crease drawing a ton of attention and make life hell for the PK. We don't do that

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    Default Re: Gonchar Thinks The YP Sucks

    as the article said also, its so **** predictable.... I could call the play before it happens, just as anyone here, so if us on lookers can do it, teams that watch the film, its easy pickins. The skill is not goin to make up for the perdictablitly
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    Default Re: Gonchar Thinks The YP Sucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle7187 View Post
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    as the article said also, its so **** predictable.... I could call the play before it happens, just as anyone here, so if us on lookers can do it, teams that watch the film, its easy pickins. The skill is not goin to make up for the perdictablitly
    Right. the problem however is what do they believe is the predictability of it? The article seems to point towards where players are aligned position wise as what is predictable. Problem is, they've shifted players around, we've seen sid play the high slot, Geno play down low or play the opposite point etc... it's never made a difference because the fundamental scheme of the YP has always remained the same. Instead of Geno getting the puck on the half boards to pass it to Gonch to get a shot, it's now Crosby feeding the puck from the half boards to gonch for the shot.... it's still the same concept that's trying to happen and teams are still keying in one preventing 2 things, the pointshot by Gonch and the backdoor pass.

    Where the Pens need to change predictability wise is to stop forcing set ups to Gonch and the backdor pass and start setting up say Geno for a slot shot, since he's the 2nd best shooter on the YP, or getting shot passes to Sid down by the net to force in, create scrums. How about moving pucks high to low more often and getting quick one time shots from the slot ot how about actually using the other side of the ice for a change?

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    Default Re: Gonchar Thinks The YP Sucks

    This kills me I seriously think these kinds of problems are mainly due to everyone involved being bull headed. Steelers problems too. To work as a TEAM you have to give up something to give something. Another Steelers analogy is how everyone (referring to the D) Keeps saying that everyone is trying to do too much. This falls right in line with the PP. What if one time, instead of trying to scheme it all out why not just send them out there and say, score fellas. There is enough talent there, just let them play using their god given instinct and talent to guide them. They are trying to create **** that isn't there, just take what IS there. The crazy thing is their set plays do seem to work quite often when it isn't a man advantage situation. I don't know, all I know is they need to work it out because if they don't it WILL bite them in the *** eventually.

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    Default Re: Gonchar Thinks The YP Sucks

    I think what they need more is not to basically have people standing and melting a hole in the ice from standing in the same spot the entire powerplay, except when Geno and Sid change posistions, it looks like that table hockey game, where you can only move so far, thats how the YP looks.... there is an entire zone to use, move guys around. They almost look like cones out there and just passing to each other. There is no law saying that because Letang and Sarge, or Gogo, whatever 2 are out there, that because the are the d-men, that they have to stay out by the points, move them in deep at times, move a guy in and out of the low and high slot.
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    Default Re: Gonchar Thinks The YP Sucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle7187 View Post
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    I think what they need more is not to basically have people standing and melting a hole in the ice from standing in the same spot the entire powerplay, except when Geno and Sid change posistions, it looks like that table hockey game, where you can only move so far, thats how the YP looks.... there is an entire zone to use, move guys around. They almost look like cones out there and just passing to each other. There is no law saying that because Letang and Sarge, or Gogo, whatever 2 are out there, that because the are the d-men, that they have to stay out by the points, move them in deep at times, move a guy in and out of the low and high slot.
    excellent point those guys are much better on the move. They would almost be better to turn the puck over so they can restart with a breakout. They also need to simply get the puck on net more and get players crashing the net in hopes of some dirty business. Dirt and successful set plays are worth the same on the score board the last time I checked.

    And then the obvious, that they should either move Geno to the point or give him his own PP. The thing is they just keep doing the same thing over and over again hoping to get different results, it isn't going to happen. I have heard poeple say, they will eventually start going in... not if they don't make some real changes.

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    Default Re: Gonchar Thinks The YP Sucks

    If you get the guys movin around in the zone, where the pk of the other team can't get a lock on them, that is goin to open things up, but when you have a set up where they are like cones just passing to each other, its not hard to really stop it. Move them around, dont have set points, and that is where there skill comes into play passing to the open guy, and I agree, shoot the puck a hell of a lot more, that last game, they didn't even have a shot on the one YP. I just think the guys need to move around in the zone, so they can't lock in on it, and only have to really defend half the zone, from the faceoff dots out, if they have that covered, and we aren't shooting, they dont have to worry about the goal line, because we will just keep passing and they will block the shots we do take.
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    Default Re: Gonchar Thinks The YP Sucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Beezy View Post
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    This kills me I seriously think these kinds of problems are mainly due to everyone involved being bull headed. Steelers problems too. To work as a TEAM you have to give up something to give something. Another Steelers analogy is how everyone (referring to the D) Keeps saying that everyone is trying to do too much. This falls right in line with the PP. What if one time, instead of trying to scheme it all out why not just send them out there and say, score fellas. There is enough talent there, just let them play using their god given instinct and talent to guide them. They are trying to create **** that isn't there, just take what IS there. The crazy thing is their set plays do seem to work quite often when it isn't a man advantage situation. I don't know, all I know is they need to work it out because if they don't it WILL bite them in the *** eventually.
    The problem with sending them all out to ad lib is that they've been doing the same scheme for so many seasons that I think it would be natural for them to simply fall back into the scheme that's not been working atuomatically. They really need a new scheme, need to rpactice, need to play it.... just to get the old one out of their heads.

    I agree they are doing too much to an extent. The too much is directly related to the scheme though. they are passing too much, skipping scoring chances to get Gonch the perfect shot at the point or to get a backdoor chance. They to around too much to do what the scheme is called for

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    Default Re: Gonchar Thinks The YP Sucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle7187 View Post
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    If you get the guys movin around in the zone, where the pk of the other team can't get a lock on them, that is goin to open things up, but when you have a set up where they are like cones just passing to each other, its not hard to really stop it. Move them around, dont have set points, and that is where there skill comes into play passing to the open guy, and I agree, shoot the puck a hell of a lot more, that last game, they didn't even have a shot on the one YP. I just think the guys need to move around in the zone, so they can't lock in on it, and only have to really defend half the zone, from the faceoff dots out, if they have that covered, and we aren't shooting, they dont have to worry about the goal line, because we will just keep passing and they will block the shots we do take.
    Still won't work. The Pens have tried this, this season on numerous occasions. They've moved Malkin from the half board during the YP and shifted him up to the point and cycled Crosby to Malkin's half board position etc... They've tried the movement stuff BUT... the scheme always remains the same - Get Gonch a point shot, and backdoor pass. They can move some of these guys around all they want, but until they do something different schematically why would the opposition PK give a ****? "sure, let Malkin move, we're stil going to stand in front of Gonch and block his shots, we're still going to have a guy down low protecting against the backdoor pass".

    They need to alter the scheme to where they are trying to get Geno point shots, Crosby attempts, Letang shots etc...

    Hell, I think a few of our last YP goals that I can really remember came from the opposite side of the ice with Skoula shots That's another problem with the Pens, all of the shooting comes from the right side. The only thing that happens on the left is the backdoor attempt down low. The Pens need to shoot equally as much from the left and keep PK's honest

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    Default Re: Gonchar Thinks The YP Sucks

    More traffic in front of the goalie and some tips on those point shots would be nice too.

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