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    Default This coming year?

    Well, it sure looks like the Pirates will not even resemble a winning team again, in 2010. Will there be an abundance of cheap free agents, in 2011, to supplement all the new and newer talent our beloved Buccos have coming on board?

    I will end up watching them in the garage, while working on friend's computers, no matter the quality of play, but I would enjoy some winning. The great atmosphere at PNC has dimmed with all the losing. I have been to the park countless times, so winning is the only thing that would bring back the "new shine".

    Would the Pirates ever break loose on free agent spending, if they thought they had the rest of the ingredients in place?

    I quit collecting bobbleheads, I'm tired of fireworks and I lost my rose colored glasses. I want to see some wins!

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    Default Re: This coming year?

    Quote Originally Posted by CROSSBONES View Post
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    Well, it sure looks like the Pirates will not even resemble a winning team again, in 2010. Will there be an abundance of cheap free agents, in 2011, to supplement all the new and newer talent our beloved Buccos have coming on board?

    If they are cheap theyll be coming with some sort of issue ex : one arm, one leg, other inuuries out the ***, old age, decline etc...

    2010 Pirates shouldn't reach .500 or above, but I think the 2010 team has a chance to provide our most wins since 2003. I outlined something in another thread but it's something I've been mentioning all offseason and that is the importance of a lack of a firesale this season. After the trade deadline this team has sunk every season. their winning percentage dips by .100+ . If they simply maintain their winning percentage pre trade deadline for a full season or something close, this team could between 72-75 games


    I will end up watching them in the garage, while working on friend's computers, no matter the quality of play, but I would enjoy some winning.

    We all would. I know that others have this believe that signing has been's, washed up, aging, injury plagued, declining free agents is going to heal all of our wounds... I personally want nothing to do with that. I had enough of Dave Littlefield going for the quick fix, slap a band aid on it free agent splurge every season and the losing continue. It took plenty of years of poor management and CEO work to put this organization into the depths of hell it was at when Huntington and Coonelly came on board. I'm aware personally with rational thinking that you can't turn hell into heaven in a matter of 2 years, so I'm going to sit back and allow them the time neccesary to rebuild this entire organization up to where it can't only just compete but is on healthy legs going into the future. Anyone believing that 2 years is enough for that happen aren't thinking rationally.

    So, while we all want a winner, I'll settle right now for seeing an improvement. If we can get 10+ more wins than last year, 5 wins or more than the most recent Littlefield years, I think we'll be on the right track, especially considering we won't be having a full season worth of the services of Alvarez, Tabata and Lincoln and those guys won't even be near peak form and could struggle initially.


    The great atmosphere at PNC has dimmed with all the losing. I have been to the park countless times, so winning is the only thing that would bring back the "new shine".

    No doubt. I would love to see the atmospehere at PNC rallying behind a competitive and winning team. It's been so long in general. Even when we were "winning" in years at the big toilet bowl - TRS, it never had that baseball atmosphere IMO. It would be great to witness it in a true baseball park


    Would the Pirates ever break loose on free agent spending, if they thought they had the rest of the ingredients in place?

    Probably not because the "few" good players in free agency are going to get gobbled up by the large market teams that we'd never realistically be able to compete against money wise. We saw what happened when the Brewers tried to compete against the Yankees for Sabathia... The Brewers lost...

    I've said this now a few times. either I'm ignored, people think I'm retarded, perhaps both but if we want/need a piece of the puzzle, the route to go is the trade market. That is where we won't be competing with the large market teams, it's where we'll be able ti find good or better talent and not have to settle on overpaying guys like John Lackey opr blowing $7 million on Jason Marquis .... but in order to do that, the minor leagues have to be stocked because we'd be trading prospects to fill a hole, help put us over the top...


    I quit collecting bobbleheads, I'm tired of fireworks and I lost my rose colored glasses.

    Blasphemy!

    I want to see some wins!

    We all do. Just don't expect more wins than loses this year and don't replace those rose colored glasses with Benny, Mister Pittsburgh's and PFIV's free agency glasses, cause Free Agency isn't going to get you more wins that would suffice your hunger
    .

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    Default Re: This coming year?

    75-6 wins would be a step in the right direction. That may be asking for too much unless the starting pitching became dominant!

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    Default Re: This coming year?

    Quote Originally Posted by CROSSBONES View Post
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    75-6 wins would be a step in the right direction. That may be asking for too much unless the starting pitching became dominant!
    I thnk 75 would be a max personally. the only way I see it being more than 75 wins is if a lot of stuff all falls into place positively, which rarely... ok, never happens to the Pirates.... those things would be...

    1. Ryan doumit not getting injured
    2. Andrew McCutchen not enduring a sophomore slump.
    3. Garett Jones duplicating 2009
    4. Pedro and Tabata coming up and hitting above average and Pedro launching a good number over the wall.
    5. Starting pitcher as a whole being at least average
    6. Bullpen as a whole at least ... ok BP not sucking.
    7. The middle infield at least being competent defensively
    8. jeff Clement hitting better than Adam Laroche consistently and showing some sort of power.

    who knows... but I still think a 72-75 win season is realistic and possible simply based on continuing past the trade deadline with the same /similar winning percentage and not enduring the fall off from the massive firesale

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    Default Re: This coming year?

    We've all seen Duke, Maholm, Ohlendorf and Morton look very good for stretches. If those four could all put it together at the same time that would be a pretty solid rotation.

    The defense behind them can't match what we had during the first half of last season (Morgan, Wilson) but should be solid enough to support those guys. Iwamura will probably even be an upgrade over Freddy. Jones in RF should be comparable to Moss while Clement can be expected to be a significant downgrade to Laroche.

    Duke, Maholm, Ohlendorf and Morton... hope springs eternal...

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    Default Re: This coming year?

    Has anyone seen an extra milk crate lying around? I can't find any. Seems Kipper has stacked them all up so he can climb up on top of them and shout down to the idiotic peasants the one right way to build a MLB team.

    If you even so much as mention signing one free agent you are a mindless idiot like there has never been a free agent over 30 that is worth a darn and are instantly thrown into the Daniel Snyder category like we are claiming we should replace everyone with high priced free agents. We hear you loud and clear Kipper. We get that you feel this way. We just don't happen to agree with you.

    I am surprised once players hit 30 they aren't handed their pink slips they are so worthless. I apologize if you take this the wrong way, but you come off very preachy and 'professor of Pirates baseball-ish' sometimes like we are all little kids and if we don't listen to you the first time we are morons. I am just here to throw out ideas and talk with fellow Pirates fans, not to be ridiculed for everything I bring up if it doesn't agree with you.

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    Default Re: This coming year?

    If we have to wait and trade prospects to fill in the gaps, we will be waiting a couple more good drafts into that kind of process. We are not deep enough..............There I go saying "we" again.

    Hope could actually be had through the starting pitching, if there was a bullpen to go with it!

    Would the Pirates actually trade for a star or two to get over the top?....................I mean, could it happen?

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    Default Re: This coming year?

    Quote Originally Posted by CROSSBONES View Post
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    If we have to wait and trade prospects to fill in the gaps, we will be waiting a couple more good drafts into that kind of process. We are not deep enough..............There I go saying "we" again.

    Hope could actually be had through the starting pitching, if there was a bullpen to go with it!

    Would the Pirates actually trade for a star or two to get over the top?....................I mean, could it happen?
    That is the question a lot are waiting to see the answer to Crossbones.....will they spend when the time comes?

    Even this year I wouldn't mind seeing them shell out a little to solidify either RF or 1B with Jones taking the other spot. We need more power bad. I don't think it would kill to offer someone like Rick Ankiel and incentive laden deal to play RF or Russell Branyan the 2 year deal he is seeking but loaded with incentives.

    Make Tabata show the power he is projected to have against AAA pitching before you stick him in front of major league pitching every day. Give Clement a full season at 1B to acclimate and play a healthy year. Ankiel or Branyan could be a nice backup for a season if one of the two, Tabata or Clement prove themselves. Be a nice veteran presence to have around.
    Last edited by Mister Pittsburgh; Dec-31-2009 at 12:07 PM.

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    Default Re: This coming year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    I thnk 75 would be a max personally. the only way I see it being more than 75 wins is if a lot of stuff all falls into place positively, which rarely... ok, never happens to the Pirates.... those things would be...

    1. Ryan doumit not getting injured
    2. Andrew McCutchen not enduring a sophomore slump.
    3. Garett Jones duplicating 2009
    4. Pedro and Tabata coming up and hitting above average and Pedro launching a good number over the wall.
    5. Starting pitcher as a whole being at least average
    6. Bullpen as a whole at least ... ok BP not sucking.
    7. The middle infield at least being competent defensively
    8. jeff Clement hitting better than Adam Laroche consistently and showing some sort of power.

    who knows... but I still think a 72-75 win season is realistic and possible simply based on continuing past the trade deadline with the same /similar winning percentage and not enduring the fall off from the massive firesale

    I'm looking at that list, and I agree that IF those things happen, it would be a huge upgrade. However, I also look at that list and see each of those items being as likely to NOT happen, as to happen, especially the pitching, which is why I really wanted the FO to pick up a decent free agent starter ( and, yes, even "overpay" for him). The bullpen situation is an absolute disaster, and the GM doesn't seem to flinch. The pitching staff is a bunch of number 4/5/6 starters (at best) and a bunch of mop-up, and/or un-tested relievers. Why does "rebuilding' imply that you don't bring in some veteran leaders(pitchers in the case of the Pirates) to stabilize the team? Just having one guy come out every fifth day and give you a chance to win would immensely help the hitters in their development.

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    Default Re: This coming year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    I thnk 75 would be a max personally. the only way I see it being more than 75 wins is if a lot of stuff all falls into place positively, which rarely... ok, never happens to the Pirates.... those things would be...
    [HIGH-LIGHT]
    1. Ryan doumit not getting injured[/HIGH-LIGHT]
    2. Andrew McCutchen not enduring a sophomore slump.
    3. Garett Jones duplicating 2009
    4. Pedro and Tabata coming up and hitting above average and Pedro
    5. Starting pitcher as a whole being at least average
    6. Bullpen as a whole at least ... ok BP not sucking.
    7. The middle infield at least being competent defensively
    8. jeff Clement hitting better than Adam Laroche consistently and showing some sort of power.

    who knows... but I still think a 72-75 win season is realistic and possible simply based on continuing past the trade deadline with the same /similar winning percentage and not enduring the fall off from the massive firesale
    Wow. I can't see any of these coming to fruition this year,
    except maybe Cutch. I say 65 wins tops. If ALL of these come to pass, then
    yes I can see them eeking out 75.

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    Default Re: This coming year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Pittsburgh View Post
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    That is the question a lot are waiting to see the answer to Crossbones.....will they spend when the time comes?

    That's my biggest fear Mr. P.... That we'll improve and progress and maybe even get close to the post-season, then trade McCutch (or whoever) to the highest bidder and start the rebuilding process all-over. IF they gel and start to vie for a division title, it would be a total slap in the face to the loyal Buc fans if they were to dismantle what they've built because they're too cheap to maintain it.

    Even this year I wouldn't mind seeing them shell out a little to solidify either RF or 1B with Jones taking the other spot. We need more power bad. I don't think it would kill to offer someone like Rick Ankiel and incentive laden deal to play RF or Russell Branyan the 2 year deal he is seeking but loaded with incentives.

    Make Tabata show the power he is projected to have against AAA pitching before you stick him in front of major league pitching every day. Give Clement a full season at 1B to acclimate and play a healthy year. Ankiel or Branyan could be a nice backup for a season if one of the two, Tabata or Clement prove themselves. Be a nice veteran presence to have around.

    I agree with you here too, it'd be nice to let Clement play first and Tabata to develop further at Indy next year, but I don't think Ankiel is that much of an upgrade, maybe Branyan or even Dye... but even then, I think pretty much everybody is resigned to another losing season this year... with what is available on the FA market, might as well let the kids play.
    I would however, like to see them sign a veteran starting pitcher to shore up the staff.

    And they are desperately in need of some bullpen arms, but that's pretty obvious.

    Regardless, it should be a very interesting season.

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    Default Re: This coming year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raphael_Belliard View Post
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    Wow. I can't see any of these coming to fruition this year,
    except maybe Cutch. I say 65 wins tops. If ALL of these come to pass, then
    yes I can see them eeking out 75.
    You read everything I typed incorrectly..

    If all of those things happen, you'd be exceeding 75 wins easily. 75 wins Max is if you are getting your standard Pirates (one guy moves forward, another moves back, regress, progress etc....) type of typical year which is what I'm expecting this year as I already outlined in another thread a few weeks agio as to why with numbers and stuff

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    Default Re: This coming year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    I thnk 75 would be a max personally. the only way I see it being more than 75 wins is if a lot of stuff all falls into place positively, which rarely... ok, never happens to the Pirates.... those things would be...

    1. Ryan doumit not getting injured
    2. Andrew McCutchen not enduring a sophomore slump.
    3. Garett Jones duplicating 2009
    4. Pedro and Tabata coming up and hitting above average and Pedro launching a good number over the wall.
    5. Starting pitcher as a whole being at least average
    6. Bullpen as a whole at least ... ok BP not sucking.
    7. The middle infield at least being competent defensively
    8. jeff Clement hitting better than Adam Laroche consistently and showing some sort of power.

    who knows... but I still think a 72-75 win season is realistic and possible simply based on continuing past the trade deadline with the same /similar winning percentage and not enduring the fall off from the massive firesale

    Spoken by a card carrying memebr of the KAG. If even a 3rd of your predictions happens I will be astonished!

    1. Ryan doumit not getting injured
    [HIGH-LIGHT]Doumit I believe has only 1 non injury year as a professional....good luck on him stayin healthy this year[/HIGH-LIGHT]
    2. Andrew McCutchen not enduring a sophomore slump.
    3. Garett Jones duplicating 2009
    [HIGH-LIGHT]Ever hear of a sophomore slump? Both players greatly exceeded expectations last year for them to approach their 2009 seasons would be asking a lot.[/HIGH-LIGHT]
    4. Pedro and Tabata coming up and hitting above average and Pedro launching a good number over the wall.
    [HIGH-LIGHT]Both players have exactly 134 AAA AB's ...non for Petey and you expect them to come to the majors next and hit above average?[/HIGH-LIGHT]
    5. Starting pitcher as a whole being at least average
    [HIGH-LIGHT]This one probably has the best chance of happening.[/HIGH-LIGHT]
    6. Bullpen as a whole at least ... ok BP not sucking.
    [HIGH-LIGHT]As the BP stands now all I can say is [/HIGH-LIGHT]
    7. The middle infield at least being competent defensively
    [HIGH-LIGHT]This also could easily happen.[/HIGH-LIGHT]
    8. jeff Clement hitting better than Adam Laroche consistently and showing some sort of power.
    [HIGH-LIGHT]I wouldn't bet a nickel this will happen. I think/hope he hits enough not to embarrass himself and his defense is probably going to be a joke.[/HIGH-LIGHT]

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    Default Re: This coming year?

    Quote Originally Posted by buccoman View Post
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    I'm looking at that list, and I agree that IF those things happen, it would be a huge upgrade. However, I also look at that list and see each of those items being as likely to NOT happen, as to happen, especially the pitching, which is why I really wanted the FO to pick up a decent free agent starter ( and, yes, even "overpay" for him). The bullpen situation is an absolute disaster, and the GM doesn't seem to flinch. The pitching staff is a bunch of number 4/5/6 starters (at best) and a bunch of mop-up, and/or un-tested relievers. Why does "rebuilding' imply that you don't bring in some veteran leaders(pitchers in the case of the Pirates) to stabilize the team? Just having one guy come out every fifth day and give you a chance to win would immensely help the hitters in their development.

    1. There was no free Agent pitcher worth pcking up unless you're blowing $16+ million on John Lackey which would end up being or going down as the single most dumbest decision and move ever made and the sort of moves we watched the Pittsburgh Penguins kill themselves with in the late 90's

    2. Veteran Pitchers = OLD guys with injury concerns that are just looking for final pay days. most are coming off either serious injuries or are worthless... but hey.... keep pretending that MLB 2K10 franchise mode is like real baseball operations


    You are right in that the Pirates lack a #1 or #2 pitcher on that staff. Your problem which seems to be consistent is that you believe that there was an Ace or #2 pitcher out there in Free Agency but YOUR WRONG.

    So the Pirates have the Starting rotation they have. guys like Morton/Ohlendorf or Maholm "{could" have enough for #2 type stuff". Bullpen IMO is as useless and meaningless as Huntington perceives it to be, so I don't give a **** about it anymore than he does. You can continue to whine to whine I think the pen will be better than all of you guys don't think.

    Please.... no more ideas on how you would "improve" this team. I saw Dave Littlefield announce them for real from 2001-2007. I'm trying to get over those nightmares and enjoy watching the True rebuilding plan that we've at least seen teams like the Pittsburgh Penguins, Cleveland Indians, Tampa Bay Rays, Florida Marlins, Milwaukee Brewers etc... use with some success

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    Default Re: This coming year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    You read everything I typed incorrectly..

    If all of those things happen, you'd be exceeding 75 wins easily. 75 wins Max is if you are getting your standard Pirates (one guy moves forward, another moves back, regress, progress etc....) type of typical year which is what I'm expecting this year as I already outlined in another thread a few weeks agio as to why with numbers and stuff
    Ok. My bad. Yes, the one guy forward one guy back enigma I can see playing out yet again......
    However, I'm expecting everyone (except Cutch and someone else no one even expects) ****ting their beds this year based on well, everything.
    It's going to be a long year, Kip, for those that think the Buccos finally turned the corner.

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