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Thread: Pirates shed talent, wait for prospects

      
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    Default Pirates shed talent, wait for prospects

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_yl...yhoo&type=lgns

    Pirates shed talent, wait for prospects

    Editor’s note: Yahoo! Sports will examine the offseason of every MLB team before spring training begins in mid-February. Our series continues with the Pittsburgh Pirates.

    2009 record: 62-99
    Finish: Sixth place, National League Central
    2009 final payroll: $48 million
    Estimated 2010 opening day payroll: $34 million

    OFFSEASON ACTION

    Jan. 4 was a busy day for the Pittsburgh Pirates. After a Hot Stove season punctuated by quietness, they made a flurry of moves. Among those they signed: Virgil Vasquez(notes), Brian Burres(notes), Jack Taschner(notes), Jimmy Barthmaier(notes), Neal Cotts(notes) and Tyler Yates(notes). It begged a new slogan.

    Pirates baseball: Where unwanted relief pitchers seek employment.

    More moves will come, certainly, as the Pirates and other low-revenue teams troll for bargains among the desperate unemployed. Pittsburgh isn’t looking to build via free agency anyway, its budget so constricted that it really couldn’t afford anybody worth pursuing.

    General manager Neal Huntington did sign utilityman Bobby Crosby(notes) for $1 million and traded reliever Jesse Chavez(notes) for second baseman Akinori Iwamura(notes). Perhaps the most significant move was one where they lost a player. The Pirates, at very least, understand marginal value, and that a team destined for the basement needn’t lavish a relief pitcher with big money.

    Still, it was somewhat sad to see the frenzy around Matt Capps(notes) after the Pirates declined to offer him a contract. Half the teams in baseball pursued him, and he received $3.5 million from Washington. Only Iwamura will make more for Pittsburgh this season.

    REALITY CHECK

    As Huntington enters his third full season, the limitations that surround him are obvious. Zero money. A farm system still suffering from Dave Littlefield’s disastrous reign. No potential stars aside from center fielder Andrew McCutchen(notes) and third baseman Pedro Alvarez, who probably will move to first base.

    A glance at Huntington’s trade record reveals a different story. When he came to Pittsburgh, there were assets. Jason Bay(notes), Xavier Nady(notes), Nate McLouth(notes), Jack Wilson(notes), Ian Snell(notes), Damaso Marte(notes), Freddy Sanchez(notes), Adam LaRoche(notes), Nyjer Morgan(notes), John Grabow(notes) and Tom Gorzelanny(notes) all have been traded, and the return has been underwhelming at best.

    Pittsburgh’s outfield has potential. McCutchen is dynamic and will be an All-Star by 2012, if not sooner. Garrett Jones(notes), written off as a AAAA lifer, hit more home runs in the second half (16) than all but eight players. Lastings Milledge(notes) is a five-tool player with a five-cent head, and if ever he can screw it on straight, he’ll make the Morgan trade look genius.

    The Pirates are so loaded with ifs – if Andy LaRoche(notes) can succeed at third, and if Alvarez can hit enough to make a move to first worthwhile, and if Charlie Morton(notes) can justify the McLouth deal – that 2010 really is a bellwether year. Though that’s nothing new. Seventeen straight seasons of sub-.500 baseball should make every campaign fraught with urgency.

    PIRATES IN HAIKU

    When depression squeezes
    Down hard, Pitt fans take solace
    At least there’s the Pens

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    Default Re: Pirates shed talent, wait for prospects

    ****it, Vandy! I read this article like a day or 2 ago and it was so poorly researched and void of the full facts, I decided it better to not share it

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    Default Re: Pirates shed talent, wait for prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    ****it, Vandy! I read this article like a day or 2 ago and it was so poorly researched and void of the full facts, I decided it better to not share it

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    Default Re: Pirates shed talent, wait for prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    ****it, Vandy! I read this article like a day or 2 ago and it was so poorly researched and void of the full facts, I decided it better to not share it
    The question that comes to mind when I read an article like this one is a simple one: If all those "talented" players could not help the Pirates even sniff at .500 then why keep them?
    Hidden Content Jacket photograph motifed baseball board game of Epoch Inc. Epoch is putting "Sunday vs Magazine Baseball Boar Game" on the market collaborated with charactors of Weekly Shounen Sunday and Weekly Shounen Magazine now. MAJOR's hero Goro Shigeno (茂野吾郎)'s character card will be sold in the future.

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    Default Re: Pirates shed talent, wait for prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by night9hawk View Post
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    The question that comes to mind when I read an article like this one is a simple one: If all those "talented" players could not help the Pirates even sniff at .500 then why keep them?
    Because there's this thinking that the Pirates were only a couple of Free Agent players away if we had kept those players from competing for a division crown.

    Yeah, I know, and you know that is completely flawed, everything about it is flawed and that we should be happy that we aren't continuing down that very road that's been killing this franchise for years and decided to make a turn (for the better, worse or same)

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    Default Re: Pirates shed talent, wait for prospects

    That is the worst article ever. Thanks for sharing Vandy.

    Every time I see that video I nearly laugh myself into a seizure. I have no idea why that is so funny.

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    Default Re: Pirates shed talent, wait for prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    Because there's this thinking that the Pirates were only a couple of Free Agent players away if we had kept those players from competing for a division crown.

    Yeah, I know, and you know that is completely flawed, everything about it is flawed and that we should be happy that we aren't continuing down that very road that's been killing this franchise for years and decided to make a turn (for the better, worse or same)
    Actually, a couple of players away was true, but at what cost to the future. I hated losing competent players as bad as anyone. At the moment, those moves look good (biting my............). There should be some developement this year, if the new regime's theory has any bite!

    I stay positive, as I am belittled by the masses!

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    Default Re: Pirates shed talent, wait for prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by wvkeeper View Post
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    [HIGH-LIGHT]That is the worst article ever[/HIGH-LIGHT]. Thanks for sharing Vandy.

    Every time I see that video I nearly laugh myself into a seizure. I have no idea why that is so funny.
    Why is it the worst article ever? I didn't read any glaring untruths.

    The only exception might be that the author said "the return (from the trades) has been underwhelming at best". I don't agree with that statement because obviously it's too early to judge.

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    Default Re: Pirates shed talent, wait for prospects

    It is the worst article ever because it is the same tripe that has been spewed by the lazy media since the Bay trade.

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    Default Re: Pirates shed talent, wait for prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by wvkeeper View Post
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    It is the worst article ever because it is the same tripe that has been spewed by the lazy media since the Bay trade.
    What in particular bothers you? Where’s the glaring mistakes ?

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    Default Re: Pirates shed talent, wait for prospects

    This article sucked.....

    --------------------------------
    Pirates shed talent, wait for prospects

    Editor’s note: Yahoo! Sports will examine the offseason of every MLB team before spring training begins in mid-February. Our series continues with the Pittsburgh Pirates.

    2009 record: 62-99
    Finish: Sixth place, National League Central
    2009 final payroll: $48 million
    Estimated 2010 opening day payroll: $34 million

    OFFSEASON ACTION

    Jan. 4 was a busy day for the Pittsburgh Pirates. After a Hot Stove season punctuated by quietness, they made a flurry of moves. Among those they signed: Virgil Vasquez(notes), Brian Burres(notes), Jack Taschner(notes), Jimmy Barthmaier(notes), Neal Cotts(notes) and Tyler Yates(notes). It begged a new slogan.

    Pirates baseball: Where unwanted relief pitchers seek employment.

    Dumb statement. If this were true we wouldn't have traded off a bunch of relievers the past few seasons etc... You could easily say - Pirates Baseball : Where other teams come to find decent relief pitching options.

    More moves will come, certainly, as the Pirates and other low-revenue teams troll for bargains among the desperate unemployed. Pittsburgh isn’t looking to build via free agency anyway, its budget so constricted that it really couldn’t afford anybody worth pursuing.

    Only a small handful of teams can afford anyone worth pursuing. big deal. Wasn't even worth wasting the time to type that paragraph since it provided zero insignt

    General manager Neal Huntington did sign utilityman Bobby Crosby(notes) for $1 million and traded reliever Jesse Chavez(notes) for second baseman Akinori Iwamura(notes). Perhaps the most significant move was one where they lost a player. The Pirates, at very least, understand marginal value, and that a team destined for the basement needn’t lavish a relief pitcher with big money.

    Still, it was somewhat sad to see the frenzy around Matt Capps(notes) after the Pirates declined to offer him a contract. Half the teams in baseball pursued him,

    Half of the teams including the one that declined to tender him showed "interest", in the end there was probably 2-3 teams at best that were interested at Capps price for him as a closer. Again, big deal, but let's either throw out all of the scenerios or none at all?

    and he received $3.5 million from Washington. Only Iwamura will make more for Pittsburgh this season.

    Yes, so what? the Nationals just grossly overpaid for Jason Marquis, why not use that when discussing what Matt Capps recieved? I know... to do so would involve thinking and a tad bit of work called "research"

    REALITY CHECK

    As Huntington enters his third full season, the limitations that surround him are obvious. Zero money. A farm system still suffering from Dave Littlefield’s disastrous reign. No potential stars aside from center fielder Andrew McCutchen(notes) and third baseman Pedro Alvarez, who probably will move to first base.

    Stars are born on the field, not on paper. We have 2 potential definite stars in Cutch and Pedro and you get a couple that are born with their own play. Jason Bay was NEVER a potential star, he became one on the field, Albert Pujols was never a potential star, he became one. this is nothing more than a poorly written comment aimed at trying to throw the Pirates under the bus (as if we the Pirates needed help). Basically, just ignoring an entire picture

    A glance at Huntington’s trade record reveals a different story. When he came to Pittsburgh, there were assets. Jason Bay(notes), Xavier Nady(notes), Nate McLouth(notes), Jack Wilson(notes), Ian Snell(notes), Damaso Marte(notes), Freddy Sanchez(notes), Adam LaRoche(notes), Nyjer Morgan(notes), John Grabow(notes) and Tom Gorzelanny(notes) all have been traded, and the return has been underwhelming at best.

    You haven't been able to get anything else completely right up to this point due to poor and lazy writing, what the **** makes you think that I'm going to belioeve your ability to evaluate baseball talent and trades?

    Pittsburgh’s outfield has potential. McCutchen is dynamic and will be an All-Star by 2012, if not sooner. Garrett Jones(notes), written off as a AAAA lifer, hit more home runs in the second half (16) than all but eight players.

    Garrett Jones isn't good enough. Not star potential

    Lastings Milledge(notes) is a five-tool player with a five-cent head, and if ever he can screw it on straight, he’ll make the Morgan trade look genius.

    How is Milledge a 5 cent head? We've all heard how he's some head case. Pirates fans have seen legit headcases in Ian snell with Milledge all we have seen is what I would like to think is an excellent example and model of how I'd want all young players to be. He's often first and last off the field, has put in the extra time to work on skills, ask to recieve some extra minors help, his interviews come off really well..... where's the 5 cent head? That's right, again you were too lazy to research and look up the facts and instead just like the rest of this aritcle, you've simply just repeated something you've heard. This isn't journalism more than it's poor plagurism


    The Pirates are so loaded with ifs – if Andy LaRoche(notes) can succeed at third, and if Alvarez can hit enough to make a move to first worthwhile, and if Charlie Morton(notes) can justify the McLouth deal – that 2010 really is a bellwether year.

    Well no ****.. If you had done any research, knew anything about this sport or more importantly - rebuilds, then yes, right now, the Pirates are naturally at a point in the rebuild where the team is a lot of question marks simply because we just flip established vets in trades for younger unproven talent/players. I mean, it's not like the 93 Yankees didn't have if's or the the 2008 Tampa Bay Rays or 2003 Florida Marlins etc... teams without a large proven cast of players have a lot of if's.


    Though that’s nothing new.

    Completely incorrect and we're back to that entire lack of research thing again. See, This is something completely new. since 1992 the Pirates have never undergone a full blown rebuild. the Pirates have never put a large emphasis on the draft and minor league development. Everything the Pirates have done for the past 17 years resembled duct taping holes in the floor of a house instead of adequately fixing what was broken to the point where the house caved in and has needed to be built from bottom up. this isn't the same old. If the results from this rebuild are continuing a losing streak... then that pint is valid but we're not close to really being able to evaluate this plan in full

    Seventeen straight seasons of sub-.500 baseball should make every campaign fraught with urgency.

    PIRATES IN HAIKU

    When depression squeezes
    Down hard, Pitt fans take solace
    At least there’s the Pens

    Not only are you a ****ty columnist, but you aren't very good at Haiku's either

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    Default Re: Pirates shed talent, wait for prospects

    I'm with PVA.

    I really didin't see anything inaccurate in the article. Sure it may have some of the 'same old, same old', but it's not a stretch of an article. I think it's a very fair one.

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    Default Re: Pirates shed talent, wait for prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by CROSSBONES View Post
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    Actually, a couple of players away was true, but at what cost to the future. I hated losing competent players as bad as anyone. At the moment, those moves look good (biting my............). There should be some developement this year, if the new regime's theory has any bite!

    I stay positive, as I am belittled by the masses!
    A couple of players away from being true is false.

    You know what couple of players away, the Pirates were in 2008 from sniffing the ability to compete? 2 Ace pitchers that weren't available and would've likely cost near what that payroll was I say Ace because anything less wouldn't have been good enough to make up for the poor Outfield defense of Bay and McLouth and subpar 3rd base defense by Jose Bautista. That's without addressing issues in the BP that year that was pretty bad.

    the Pirates NEVER had a realistic chance of seriously contending with that lineup. Anyone that thinks so is living in a pipe dream. Not to mention what NOT trading those players at peak times would've done to the Pirates in th nearer future etc... 2008 team was just a poorly constructed team by Dave Littlefield that Huntington inherited, gave a shot and saw that it was poorly constructed and the best thing to do with it was to get as much of a return as he could for what was mostly an aging and soon to be very expensive team.

    From bucco fans...

    http://www.buccofans.com/2009/12/kee...-together.html

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    Default Re: Pirates shed talent, wait for prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by vandelay industries View Post
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    I'm with PVA.

    I really didin't see anything inaccurate in the article. Sure it may have some of the 'same old, same old', but it's not a stretch of an article. I think it's a very fair one.
    It's Smizik like. Sure it's not a "stretch" article but it';s not very well thought out and researched and I can't speak for others, but that's exactly what ****ed me off. I'm tired of reading the same regurgitated fluiff **** from terrible columnists that try to pass themselves off as being credible. It annoys the **** out of me, especially when there's a ton of Blogs out there that can provide more insight in a single paragraph.

    It would just be nice to see people actually do their jobs well when they are writing about how others aren't doing their jobs well. It would be nice to see a little effort put forth by these "national" writers

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    Default Re: Pirates shed talent, wait for prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    It's Smizik like. Sure it's not a "stretch" article but it';s not very well thought out and researched and I can't speak for others, but that's exactly what ****ed me off. I'm tired of reading the same regurgitated fluiff **** from terrible columnists that try to pass themselves off as being credible. It annoys the **** out of me, especially when there's a ton of Blogs out there that can provide more insight in a single paragraph.

    It would just be nice to see people actually do their jobs well when they are writing about how others aren't doing their jobs well. It would be nice to see a little effort put forth by these "national" writers

    For a basic overview article on the offseason of the Pirates, or any ML team for that matter, I think it's just fine. It briefly sums up what happened in the offseason and briefly touches on 2010.

    Seems fine to me.

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