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Thread: Sergei Gonchar

      
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    Default Sergei Gonchar

    Just wanted to point this out, because I found it fascinating. Sergei Gonchar is not only a team leader (and possibly the true captain of the team in terms of a leadership, guidance role...I know many will argue with this) but possibly the best defenseman in the NHL. Obviously you cannot look at stats and determine everything, but Sergei Gonchar is 8th in the NHL (for defensemen) in scoring...and has played 18-20 games fewer than all the defensemen above him. The ice time he logs...the important moments he's on the ice...he plays against the opponents best lines....I can honestly say that, in my opinion, Sergei Gonchar is a MUST sign for the Penguins. Leadership, scoring, defense...Gonchar can still play, play at a high level and I, for one, am extremely happy that he's a penguin!
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    Default Re: Sergei Gonchar

    I disagree. Gonchar isn't that good defensively. Just because someone logs a lot of minutes doesn't mean that they're good. Mike Green logs just as many minutes for the Crapitals and Green is terrible defensively.

    ... but like I said in another thread, at least IMO, Gonchar is our best, most consistent and reliable defensive player (defensive player meaning at playing defense)... which IMO is a problem because Gonchar is probably a little better than average. him and Orpik make a good pair and it probably helps Gonchar out some... but it's why I'm an advocate for us to get better at the trade deadline with a good, smart defensive minded player. Screw wingers. Defense wins championships.

    I'm stil on the fence about extending Gonchar. He's getting inured far too often , is at the age where the injuries keep coming and get bigger and worse and he wont be cheap

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    Default Re: Sergei Gonchar

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    I disagree. Gonchar isn't that good defensively. Just because someone logs a lot of minutes doesn't mean that they're good. Mike Green logs just as many minutes for the Crapitals and Green is terrible defensively.

    ... but like I said in another thread, at least IMO, Gonchar is our best, most consistent and reliable defensive player (defensive player meaning at playing defense)... which IMO is a problem because Gonchar is probably a little better than average. him and Orpik make a good pair and it probably helps Gonchar out some... but it's why I'm an advocate for us to get better at the trade deadline with a good, smart defensive minded player. Screw wingers. Defense wins championships.

    [HIGH-LIGHT]I'm stil on the fence about extending Gonchar. He's getting inured far too often , is at the age where the injuries keep coming and get bigger and worse and he wont be cheap[/HIGH-LIGHT]
    Count me in as one that ISN'T on the fence. Gonchar, like you said, is our best defenseman...and honestly 33 points in 38 games is pretty **** good. He's still at 60-70 point-per-full-season player...the Gonchar-Orpik pairing is a good pairing too, especially if we had another good/great pairing to go along with it. He wont be inexpensive, but I think Gonchar is a player the Pens NEED to lock up. Im more than OK with people disagreeing with me...I just think what he brings to the team is something one cant really give up...the way the team played when he came back last year...the way the PP is finally producing better now that he's back...I dunno...he's just, to me, a part of the team that we just can't afford to lose.
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    Default Re: Sergei Gonchar

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBen2112 View Post
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    Count me in as one that ISN'T on the fence. Gonchar, like you said, is our best defenseman...and honestly 33 points in 38 games is pretty **** good. He's still at 60-70 point-per-full-season player...the Gonchar-Orpik pairing is a good pairing too, especially if we had another good/great pairing to go along with it. He wont be inexpensive, but I think Gonchar is a player the Pens NEED to lock up. Im more than OK with people disagreeing with me...I just think what he brings to the team is something one cant really give up...the way the team played when he came back last year...the way the PP is finally producing better now that he's back...I dunno...he's just, to me, a part of the team that we just can't afford to lose.
    The difference between me and you is that you are content to pay a player based on what they "were" worth and "had" accomplished ... You aren't going to be paying Gonchar for what he did when he was 30-35 years old. You CANNOT pay him based on what he was worth at 30 years old, 5 years later. you just can't. That's awful management underneath the cap. Gonchar going forward isn't worth $5 million per year, I can't see it, not with his injuries piling up on a yearly basis.

    So IMO... Gonchar needs to take a nice pay cut. If not, sorry, time to move on, find someone to replace him, re shift the focus and such in certain strategies and aspects of the team and play if need be to go forward without Gonch, but we can't afford him and he's not worth $5 million per under the cap. Not at 36 years of age going forward. I don't know who Ray would find or could pull but I've got faith in the guy

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    Default Re: Sergei Gonchar

    Like I've said before, I'd love to see the Pens keep Gonchar, but at a cap hit that the team can afford. I think Gonchar can still play, but I don't think the Pens can offer him as much money as some other teams. I don't agree with the "sign him at any cost" philosophy. If Gonchar isn't a Penguin next year... it will be because of money, not because the Pens felt he couldn't play at a high level anymore.

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    Default Re: Sergei Gonchar

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBen2112 View Post
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    Just wanted to point this out, because I found it fascinating. Sergei Gonchar is not only a team leader (and possibly the true captain of the team in terms of a leadership, guidance role...I know many will argue with this) but possibly the best defenseman in the NHL. Obviously you cannot look at stats and determine everything, but Sergei Gonchar is 8th in the NHL (for defensemen) in scoring...and has played 18-20 games fewer than all the defensemen above him. The ice time he logs...the important moments he's on the ice...he plays against the opponents best lines....I can honestly say that, in my opinion, Sergei Gonchar is a MUST sign for the Penguins. Leadership, scoring, defense...Gonchar can still play, play at a high level and I, for one, am extremely happy that he's a penguin!

    I agree 100%. Im a HUGE Gonchar fan. Definatly my favourite D-man in the league. He is so underated by many its sick. IMO hes the 2nd most valuable player on this team. And yes I would cut ties with Gogo knowing that we can have Gonch for 3 more seasons. SIGN HIM NOW!
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    Default Re: Sergei Gonchar

    Quote Originally Posted by (419)BlackNGold View Post
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    Like I've said before, I'd love to see the Pens keep Gonchar, but at a cap hit that the team can afford. I think Gonchar can still play, but I don't think the Pens can offer him as much money as some other teams. [HIGH-LIGHT]I don't agree with the "sign him at any cost" philosophy.[/HIGH-LIGHT] If Gonchar isn't a Penguin next year... it will be because of money, not because the Pens felt he couldn't play at a high level anymore.
    I dont think it should be at any cost, but I think there certainly is a reason to make him almost MORE than the priority...I also agree with Kip that maybe he's not worth 5M but I think Shero has to be smart and even possibly offer 5 M for a season or two and just extend the contract out long-term enough to make the cap hit lower. I think the money is there to keep him...if we want to do what I just said...and if he's willing to accept that.
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    Default Re: Sergei Gonchar

    I would love to sign Gonch for 2 -3 years, if cap space allows. But only at the right price. Let's face it, he's at the age where skills start to diminish, and he becomes more injury prone.

    That said, at least for this year, he's probably the most important player on the team not named Sid. Letang/Gogo as his replacement, at least at this point, makes me extremely nervous.

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    Default Re: Sergei Gonchar

    i dont know what site it was or what not, but he wants another 5 years at basically $4.5-$5.0/year... he is not worth keeping that long for that much.. I might say ok to 2 years for that much, but he made it clear he wants a 4-5 year deal, and basically what he is making now. I dont want him if he wants that kinda money when he has been getting injured more and more. I really do like Gonchar and thinks he brings a lot to the team, but I also dont want to be payin someone $4-$5mill a year who might be on the sidelines for 20+ games a year either.... that is some of the things that have to be thought about.
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    Default Re: Sergei Gonchar

    Gonchar will not be a pen next year. We have to trim 11 mill of payroll to get under cap for next year. We have lovejoy and Straight who will be ready next year for sure.

    Gogo and Letang will both get around 3 mill a year and they are a future.

    The only question is do they hold onto Gonchar for the the playoffs and get nothing for him or do they move him at the deadline for some good prospects.

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    Default Re: Sergei Gonchar

    Quote Originally Posted by Hittman View Post
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    Gonchar will not be a pen next year. We have to trim 11 mill of payroll to get under cap for next year. We have lovejoy and Straight who will be ready next year for sure.

    Gogo and Letang will both get around 3 mill a year and they are a future.

    The only question is do they hold onto Gonchar for the the playoffs and get nothing for him or do they move him at the deadline for some good prospects.
    How did you calculate 11 mil off payroll for next year?

    And getting rid of Goch for the playoffs makes no sense. For prospects?

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    Default Re: Sergei Gonchar

    The funny thing is that Gonchar is the best player (D) you can get for the price...so trading him prior to the deadline doesn't make much sense--meaning that you couldn't then trade for his replacement b/c that replacement is going to be MORE money most likely--and the last time I checked until proven otherwise we're still the defending SC Champions and so we should probably attempt to defend that title.

    And yeah...how'd you get 11M?
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    Default Re: Sergei Gonchar

    Not to sound negative, but say the Pens dont win the SC, would you be happy that you kept Gonchar, and then he walks away when his contract is up, and they basically get nothing for return? Gonchar is goin to be hard to replace, but basically we are goin to either lose him at the trade deadline or as soon as the season is over. Also another consideration, what if they dont trade him at the deadline and he gets another hit like OVARY did last year, but keeps him out the entire playoffs, being that he is getting more injury proned as it is? I wish we could keep him, but he wants way more then what I think he is goin to end up being worth, especially with how frequent his injuries have been coming, so on that note, IMO, I feel trading him and atleast getting something out of him might be a little bit smarter of a move.
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    Default Re: Sergei Gonchar

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle7187 View Post
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    Not to sound negative, but say the Pens dont win the SC, would you be happy that you kept Gonchar, and then he walks away when his contract is up, and they basically get nothing for return?

    Was that your thougths when they let Lang and Francis walk away under the same conditions? How did you feel about renting Hossa at that price two years ago?

    Gonchar is goin to be hard to replace, but basically we are goin to either lose him at the trade deadline or as soon as the season is over.

    If we trade him for prospects, we're saying goodbye Cup before the excitement starts.

    Also another consideration, what if they dont trade him at the deadline and he gets another hit like OVARY did last year, but keeps him out the entire playoffs, being that he is getting more injury proned as it is? I wish we could keep him, but he wants way more then what I think he is goin to end up being worth, especially with how frequent his injuries have been coming, so on that note, IMO, I feel trading him and atleast getting something out of him might be a little bit smarter of a move.
    I see a decent amount of cap space to be cleared by simply removing or trading deadwood. Eaton, Golgoski, Dupuis. Eaton is an enigma to me. I don't care for him as a defenseman, but he sure had a good playoff last year. Bottom line IMO is that if we trade Gochar, we're playing for next year.

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    Default Re: Sergei Gonchar

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    I disagree. Gonchar isn't that good defensively. Just because someone logs a lot of minutes doesn't mean that they're good. Mike Green logs just as many minutes for the Crapitals and Green is terrible defensively.

    ... but like I said in another thread, at least IMO, Gonchar is our best, most consistent and reliable defensive player (defensive player meaning at playing defense)... which IMO is a problem because Gonchar is probably a little better than average. him and Orpik make a good pair and it probably helps Gonchar out some... but it's why I'm an advocate for us to get better at the trade deadline with a good, smart defensive minded player. Screw wingers. Defense wins championships.

    I'm stil on the fence about extending Gonchar. He's getting inured far too often , is at the age where the injuries keep coming and get bigger and worse and he wont be cheap
    Gonchar is far better defensively than you give him credit for, and has improved on that every year he's been here. He will never be known as a shut down defenseman, but he keeps most everything to the outside and makes few mistakes. His foot and stick work does his bidding. He's in the same mold as Murphy, who was more than adequate as a defensive defenseman.

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