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Thread: 2004 "Prospects"

      
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    Default 2004 "Prospects"

    For those of you who saw the Bucs Dugout ripping of the PG letter, this 2004 Paul Meyer piece was one of the articles that Charlie cited as an example of journalistic puff during the PG era of Pirates ownership.

    It is comical in its own right and I thought deserved its own post. The article lists the "exciting prospects" in the Pirates system. It's amazing (and sad) to look back on the state of the Littlefield system just 5+ years ago. There's a pretty glaring pattern. The complete list:

    Victor Mercedes: 25 years old in class A+

    Josh Bonifay: 26 years old in AA

    Ray Sadler: 23 years old in AA. (but not promoted there by Littlefield. He was acquired in the Randall Simon deal and already in AA when he arrived)

    Yurendell DeCaster: 24 years old in AA. (and was only promoted to AA because the Pirates lost both Shelton and Bautista to the Rule 5 Draft that year)

    Jeff Miller: 24 years old in AA

    Brad Eldred: 24 years old in A+

    Rajai Davis: 23 years old in A+

    Tom Gorzelanny: 22 years old in A+

    Leo Nunez: 20 years old in A


    It's pretty simple. Of the 4 guys aged 23 and under, 3 established themselves as major leaguers. Of the 5 guys aged 24 and over, none had even sniffed AAA yet and none of those guys made it.

    Littlefield's inability to develop players was truly amazing, and Meyer's failure to recognize (or admit) that most of these guys were neither prospects nor exciting is almost equally so.


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    Default Re: 2004 "Prospects"

    Quote Originally Posted by Daskid View Post
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    For those of you who saw the Bucs Dugout ripping of the PG letter, this 2004 Paul Meyer piece was one of the articles that Charlie cited as an example of journalistic puff during the PG era of Pirates ownership.

    It is comical in its own right and I thought deserved its own post. The article lists the "exciting prospects" in the Pirates system. It's amazing (and sad) to look back on the state of the Littlefield system just 5+ years ago. There's a pretty glaring pattern. The complete list:

    Victor Mercedes: 25 years old in class A+

    Josh Bonifay: 26 years old in AA

    Ray Sadler: 23 years old in AA. (but not promoted there by Littlefield. He was acquired in the Randall Simon deal and already in AA when he arrived)

    Yurendell DeCaster: 24 years old in AA. (and was only promoted to AA because the Pirates lost both Shelton and Bautista to the Rule 5 Draft that year)

    Jeff Miller: 24 years old in AA

    Brad Eldred: 24 years old in A+

    Rajai Davis: 23 years old in A+

    Tom Gorzelanny: 22 years old in A+

    Leo Nunez: 20 years old in A


    It's pretty simple. Of the 4 guys aged 23 and under, 3 established themselves as major leaguers. Of the 5 guys aged 24 and over, none had even sniffed AAA yet and none of those guys made it.

    Littlefield's inability to develop players was truly amazing, and Meyer's failure to recognize (or admit) that most of these guys were neither prospects nor exciting is almost equally so.

    Leo Nunez for Benito Saniago

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    Default Re: 2004 "Prospects"

    WOW

    I don't know if it is disturbing that people thought Littlefield was a savior and genius for so long and blindly put all of his work on a pedestal while they bash every decision Huntington makes OR

    if it is just flat out a good thing that the same people that praised Littlefield are slamming Huntington and we just be encouraging more bashing and slamming?

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    Default Re: 2004 "Prospects"

    Quote Originally Posted by PittFaninVa View Post
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    Leo Nunez for Benito Saniago
    Santiago had a great career as a Pirate. He hit safely in his first 5 games with the team! Unfortunately he only played 1 more game after that then got released. Humberto Cota was the catcher who played the most games that year.

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    Default Re: 2004 "Prospects"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    WOW

    I don't know if it is disturbing that people thought Littlefield was a savior and genius for so long and blindly put all of his work on a pedestal while they bash every decision Huntington makes OR

    if it is just flat out a good thing that the same people that praised Littlefield are slamming Huntington and we just be encouraging more bashing and slamming?
    Actually Littlefield started his tenure pretty well then got progressively stupider! His last couple of years when his job was on the line he just imploded.

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    Default Re: 2004 "Prospects"

    Quote Originally Posted by PittFaninVa View Post
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    Actually Littlefield started his tenure pretty well then got progressively stupider! His last couple of years when his job was on the line he just imploded.
    Player/personnel decisions at the beginning weren't bad for Littlefield (not great either) but it was also the complete lack of a plan from day 1 that killed him and this organization. It's tough for me to accept that his tenure started off well when it was really the start of both failure and helping to really kill this organization

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    Default Re: 2004 "Prospects"

    Quote Originally Posted by PittFaninVa View Post
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    Actually Littlefield started his tenure pretty well then got progressively stupider! His last couple of years when his job was on the line he just imploded.
    That's being pretty generous.

    He immediately whiffed of the Jason Schmidt trade after being hired in 2001, but got so lucky pawning off Todd Ritchie to the White Sox that he was hailed as a genius and milked that sentiment through the Chris Young/Matt Herges debacle, passing on BJ Upton, and the 2002 Rule 5 draft mess.

    Things almost came to a head in 2003 thanks to that year's Rule 5 draft mess, the squandering of Aramis Ramirez, and trading Mike Gonzalez for himself. But somehow he got so much credit for plucking Sanders and Suppan off the scrap heap and getting fair value in the Giles trade (even though Bay wasn't the guy he wanted) that he saved himself.

    From 2004 on, he proceded to run the organization completely and totally into the ground, starting with the very Leo Nunez trade you mentioned.

    And it only took 3 straight years of bad decisions after that for anyone to finally stop him...

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    Default Re: 2004 "Prospects"

    Clearly Littlefield was a jagoff. I am sick reading this stuff. Maybe someone should just kill him like the mafia would after someone ****ed up so much.

    Oh...wait...to all the 'PC' people out there...i don't really want DL dead.

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    Default Re: 2004 "Prospects"

    Quote Originally Posted by Daskid View Post
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    That's being pretty generous.

    He immediately whiffed of the Jason Schmidt trade after being hired in 2001, but got so lucky pawning off Todd Ritchie to the White Sox that he was hailed as a genius and milked that sentiment through the Chris Young/Matt Herges debacle, passing on BJ Upton, and the 2002 Rule 5 draft mess.

    Things almost came to a head in 2003 thanks to that year's Rule 5 draft mess, the squandering of Aramis Ramirez, and trading Mike Gonzalez for himself. But somehow he got so much credit for plucking Sanders and Suppan off the scrap heap and getting fair value in the Giles trade (even though Bay wasn't the guy he wanted) that he saved himself.

    From 2004 on, he proceded to run the organization completely and totally into the ground, starting with the very Leo Nunez trade you mentioned.

    And it only took 3 straight years of bad decisions after that for anyone to finally stop him...
    I'm a generous guy.....

    The Schmidt trade kind of summed up DL's whole tenure with the Pirates he gets Voglesong who pitched in 2 games for the Pirates then needed TJ and Armando Ríos who blew his knee out after a couple of games....

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    Default Re: 2004 "Prospects"

    I was watching the Carribean World Series on MLB Network and up to the plate steps Armando Rios. During the AB I also spotted Rene Gayo sitting in the front row. I'm starting to worry that Rios may be on his way back to Pittsburgh.

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    Default Re: 2004 "Prospects"

    Quote Originally Posted by jnn123 View Post
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    I was watching the Carribean World Series on MLB Network and up to the plate steps Armando Rios. During the AB I also spotted Rene Gayo sitting in the front row. I'm starting to worry that Rios may be on his way back to Pittsburgh.
    ****...I didn't know he was still playing....how old is he now?

    Rene Gayo is omnipresent in the Dominican.

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    Default Re: 2004 "Prospects"

    Quote Originally Posted by PittFaninVa View Post
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    ****...I didn't know he was still playing....how old is he now?

    Rene Gayo is omnipresent in the Dominican.
    He was already 29 when he came to the Pirates, so now he's about 38 1/2.

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    Default Re: 2004 "Prospects"

    Quote Originally Posted by ShayP View Post
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    Clearly Littlefield was a jagoff. I am sick reading this stuff. Maybe someone should just kill him like the mafia would after someone ****ed up so much.

    Oh...wait...to all the 'PC' people out there...i don't really want DL dead.
    Yeah, sorry Shay. That's kind of beating a dead horse, but bashing Littlefield wasn't my sole intent.

    This post was also meant to contrast the current crop of prospects and highlight the fact that we have McCutchen in the bigs at 22, Alvarez likely to join at 23, Tabata likely at 22, etc. It's a very different world under Huntington.

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