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Thread: Big Ben towers over Manning in playoffs

      
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    Default Big Ben towers over Manning in playoffs

    Big Ben towers over Manning in playoffs

    By Jason Cole, Yahoo! Sports
    Feb 9, 4:22 pm EST

    Buzz up! 273 PrintAt the risk of being a heretic ([HIGH-LIGHT]or worse, completely agreeing with good friend Dutch Wydo[/HIGH-LIGHT]), there is a case to be made that Ben Roethlisberger(notes) is a better quarterback than Peyton Manning(notes).

    Certainly in the playoffs.

    Before you send that email calling me crazy or mocking me only days after I wrote that Manning is the fourth-best quarterback of all time, let’s put this in perspective. It is impossible to truly measure Roethlisberger against Manning or Tom Brady(notes) just yet.

    More From Jason ColeShockey's second chance ends in redemption Feb 8, 2010 Rice, Smith let the tears flow Feb 6, 2010 ADVERTISEMENT


    Ben Roethlisberger celebrates his second Super Bowl win.

    (Andy Lyons/Getty Images)
    Roethlisberger has played six years. His regular-season stats (only two seasons with more than 18 touchdown passes) pale in comparison to those of Manning, Brady and many other quarterbacks. In short, so much of his career is yet to be played that it’s silly to rank him even among the top 25 quarterbacks of all time.

    Bottom line, it would take serious guts to draft Roethlisberger ahead of Manning at this point of their respective careers.

    Furthermore, there isn’t a defensive coordinator in the league who won’t tell you that the challenge of facing Manning is much tougher from a game-plan aspect than facing Roethlisberger.

    “There’s nothing you can do against Peyton that he hasn’t seen,” said Detroit defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham, who has spent the past 15 years in the NFL in that role with four teams and is one of the most respected defensive minds in the league. “He can figure out anything you’re trying to do and find the perfect play to get you. You constantly have to change what you do and hope that he just makes some mistake along the way.

    “With Roethlisberger, he’s a completely different kind of player. He’s unique because he’s so big and so tough that you hit him and he just shakes it off and keeps looking downfield. He’s great, but figuring out how to defend isn’t the hard part. The hard part is executing the plan.”

    Roethlisberger has also been backed by one of the great defenses of this decade. But mentioning the Steelers’ defense means that you must also credit the Colts for surrounding Manning with great offensive weapons and amazing consistency on the coaching staff.

    The bottom line is this: Roethlisberger is currently 8-2 in the playoffs, has two Super Bowl rings – including his great final drive against Arizona – and a quarterback rating of 87.2 in the playoffs. That includes his bad performance in the Super Bowl win against Seattle, a bad first half in a playoff loss to Jacksonville and a typically bad playoff game against New England in the 2004 playoffs when he was a rookie.

    For Manning, he is now 9-9 in the playoffs over his 12-year career, has one Super Bowl win, is coming off a bad finish against New Orleans and has a quarterback rating of 95.5 in the playoffs. If you break down the stats further, you’ll note that the Colts have asked Manning to do a lot more (38.4 attempts per game) than the Steelers have of Roethlisberger (28.8 attempts).

    But the bottom line is that Roethlisberger has succeeded (he was great in the 2008 playoffs and also in the 2005 playoffs before the Super Bowl against Seattle) and Manning has struggled.
    Are these morons getting dumber or just louder-Mayor Quimby

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    Default Re: Big Ben towers over Manning in playoffs

    I completely agree and am glad that someone else sees it.

    Big Ben is a stud in the playoffs while Manning and his happy feet.........
    Sweet *** sig thanks to Kipper.Hidden Content

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    Default Re: Big Ben towers over Manning in playoffs

    Manning may be the best regular season QB of all time. He is average in the playoffs and below average in road playoff games. Good read.

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    Default Re: Big Ben towers over Manning in playoffs

    In defense of Manning....he has never had the benefit of a pretty consistently great defense..........like Ben has.

    Colts have never...never...never...been known a defense dominant team.

    If Manning played.....for the Steelers....how many rings do you think he may have?

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    Default Re: Big Ben towers over Manning in playoffs

    I just think that most fans are tired of seeing us win, so they will take every opportunity to tear us down. It is nice to see someone cut through all the crap and see him for who he is.

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    Default Re: Big Ben towers over Manning in playoffs

    Mannings pro career mirrors his college career where he had nothing but trouble in big games. He lost to Florida 4 straight years and in his senior year lost to Nebraska by over 30 in the orange bowl! He graduates and immediate a little known QB with a letter for a first name, T Martin, gets them the national championship. My gosh, even Jeff Hostetler, Jim McMahon and Trent Dilfer have a superbowl ring! You make the guy the highest paid player when he produces the rings for you...not before!
    No one ever says "It's only a game," when their team is winning!

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    Default Re: Big Ben towers over Manning in playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by bleedBnG58 View Post
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    In defense of Manning....he has never had the benefit of a pretty consistently great defense..........like Ben has.

    Colts have never...never...never...been known a defense dominant team.

    If Manning played.....for the Steelers....how many rings do you think he may have?
    Against the Cardinals, it was the play of Rothlesberger that brought them back from the brink of defeat. Against the Saints, it was Manning who threw the big INT and did nothing after that. Doesn't have a **** thing to do with the respective defenses of the Steelers or the Colts.

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    Default Re: Big Ben towers over Manning in playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by bleedBnG58 View Post
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    If Manning played.....for the Steelers....how many rings do you think he may have?
    None!

    The first time he started his primadonna bull**** he would have gotten his *** beaten in the locker room and the fans would have run him outta town the day after.


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    Default Re: Big Ben towers over Manning in playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by exNCite View Post
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    Against the Cardinals, it was the play of Rothlesberger that brought them back from the brink of defeat. Against the Saints, it was Manning who threw the big INT and did nothing after that. Doesn't have a **** thing to do with the respective defenses of the Steelers or the Colts.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackJackGold View Post
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    None!

    The first time he started his primadonna bull**** he would have gotten his *** beaten in the locker room and the fans would have run him outta town the day after.

    1st,,,..Ben is all that???? His first ring...he did nothing to earn,,,...they nursed him to it.

    Don't see and never heard of Manning being a primadonna....IMO Manning is the top QB in the league today....Ben has a career to try to beat him cause Manning will hold all the records, that Favre took from Marino, before he is done.

    Consider this season alone...compare Ben to Manning, and wins. The Colts could have and most likely would have been 16-0 if it had been Mannings choice IMO. Granted Manning threw the INT to lose a big game, but his every game performance out plays Ben's. Ben had some pitiful games this year. Ben couldn't pull a win out in Cleveland? (won't mention any of our other losses, that 1 alone is enough of an embarrassment)


    If you don't think Manning having a better defense to support him wouldn't make a difference, then I just don't know what to say. He brought his team back from being down in the 4th qtr. at least 7 games this year, if he had a D that Ben has had the benefit from the past few seasons, not so much this year, who knows how many rings he would have. If Manning had better a D, (or had Ben's), he would have a better playoff record.

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    Default Re: Big Ben towers over Manning in playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by bleedBnG58 View Post
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    1st,,,..Ben is all that???? His first ring...he did nothing to earn,,,...they nursed him to it.

    Don't see and never heard of Manning being a primadonna....IMO Manning is the top QB in the league today....Ben has a career to try to beat him cause Manning will hold all the records, that Favre took from Marino, before he is done.

    Consider this season alone...compare Ben to Manning, and wins. The Colts could have and most likely would have been 16-0 if it had been Mannings choice IMO. Granted Manning threw the INT to lose a big game, but his every game performance out plays Ben's. Ben had some pitiful games this year. Ben couldn't pull a win out in Cleveland? (won't mention any of our other losses, that 1 alone is enough of an embarrassment)


    If you don't think Manning having a better defense to support him wouldn't make a difference, then I just don't know what to say. He brought his team back from being down in the 4th qtr. at least 7 games this year, if he had a D that Ben has had the benefit from the past few seasons, not so much this year, who knows how many rings he would have. If Manning had better a D, (or had Ben's), he would have a better playoff record.
    I disagree that Ben did nothing to earn the first SB ring.

    14/18, 208 tards and 3TDs/0 INT versus the Bengals
    14/24, 197 yards and 2TDs/1 INT versus the Colts (plus, that little thing known as the tackle)
    21/29, 275 yards and 2TDs/0 INT versus the Broncos

    That's hardly being nursed to the first Superbowl; without Ben, the Steelers don't get out of the first round.


    9/21, 123 yards and 0 TDs/2 INTs versus Seahawks, won't win many games playing like that, but, he made some big plays even though it was a bad game overall.

    Ben carried the team into the SB and then the team helped him out in the Suerbowl. That's why it's a team game.

    I'll leave the debate about Ben and Manning to those that really care who is better, who you would rather have on your team, who is a Prima Donna, who is a choker, etc, I don't care, I'll take Ben warts and all, because, he's the Steelers' quarterback and will be for a long time and the Steelers will be successful while he's playing.

    Bad games come with the territory of being an NFL quarterback. Could Ben have played better against Cleveland? yup Kansas City? probably (But, he did put them in a position to win the game) Oakland? Maybe, he put them in position to win 3 times in the 4th quarter to win the game and they didn't. Overall for the year, Ben had a 100.5 quarterback rating, so he played very good all year in aggregate, individual games can always be identified as poor games the same as other individual games can be identified as outstanding.

    Look at the body of work, there weren't many better last year.

    Papillon

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    Default Re: Big Ben towers over Manning in playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Papillon View Post
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    I disagree that Ben did nothing to earn the first SB ring.

    14/18, 208 tards and 3TDs/0 INT versus the Bengals
    14/24, 197 yards and 2TDs/1 INT versus the Colts (plus, that little thing known as the tackle)
    21/29, 275 yards and 2TDs/0 INT versus the Broncos

    That's hardly being nursed to the first Superbowl; without Ben, the Steelers don't get out of the first round.


    9/21, 123 yards and 0 TDs/2 INTs versus Seahawks, won't win many games playing like that, but, he made some big plays even though it was a bad game overall.

    Ben carried the team into the SB and then the team helped him out in the Suerbowl. That's why it's a team game.

    I'll leave the debate about Ben and Manning to those that really care who is better, who you would rather have on your team, who is a Prima Donna, who is a choker, etc, I don't care, I'll take Ben warts and all, because, he's the Steelers' quarterback and will be for a long time and the Steelers will be successful while he's playing.

    Bad games come with the territory of being an NFL quarterback. Could Ben have played better against Cleveland? yup Kansas City? probably (But, he did put them in a position to win the game) Oakland? Maybe, he put them in position to win 3 times in the 4th quarter to win the game and they didn't. Overall for the year, Ben had a 100.5 quarterback rating, so he played very good all year in aggregate, individual games can always be identified as poor games the same as other individual games can be identified as outstanding.

    [HIGH-LIGHT]Look at the body of work, there weren't many better last year.[/HIGH-LIGHT]

    Papillon
    Several years back there was a QB whose name was always thrown out there as being one of the top 3 in the league. He has faded along with that opinion. That QB was Palmer. I seriously doubt he has enough playing time left to make a HOF career.

    The past several seasons there was a QB who was putting up big numbers every year, but not getting any credit because not making the playoffs. That QB was Brees. He will have to do a lot more in the years he has left to be a HOF'er.

    There once was a QB who held every passing record on the books but never won a championship. That QB was Marino.

    There is a QB that has played for many years, won a lot of games but not a lot of championships. He now holds a lot of the passing records. That QB is Favre. But he will be a HOF'er.

    There are several QB's in the league that are always associated with "one day being great", or "one of the best", but have yet to prove it. Those QB's being Rivers, Cutler, and McNabb. Will any of them make the Hall?

    There are two QB's that have showed they are the top players at the position and they will be HOF'ers. Manning and Brady.

    Ben has that same chance; however forget his body of work this year when not even making the playoffs. I could care less if he ever throws for 4,000 yards again. It didn't get him to the playoffs...or even the Pro Bowl. Granted his win/loss percentage is better than Mannings in the playoffs right now, but time could change that.

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    Default Re: Big Ben towers over Manning in playoffs

    Manning is like having Barry Sanders on the team. Sanders made Detroit get press time because they had nothing else.

    Manning isn't on as bad as team as Detroit had over the years but, without Manning the Colts would be a typical 500 team that would marvel over a chance or two of playoffs over a decade.

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    Default Re: Big Ben towers over Manning in playoffs

    Just because I'm a Steelers fan and would like to see Ben brak and make records, I still have to admit that Manning is a darn good quarterback. Manning makes that team much like Ben to our team, Brees to his.

    BEN, PEYTON, BREES, are the top quarterbacks in the league IMHO

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    Default Re: Big Ben towers over Manning in playoffs

    Anyone watch peyton primadoona after the superbowl HE lost for his team?

    It was everyone's fault but his own.....as usual.

    That's the type of primadonna bull**** I am talking about.

    That, going postal on his line because he gets sacked, over riding a coaches decision to bring the kicking unit on the field....

    I could go on and on....

    The guy is a ****ing tool.

    Period.

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    Default Re: Big Ben towers over Manning in playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by bleedBnG58 View Post
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    Several years back there was a QB whose name was always thrown out there as being one of the top 3 in the league. He has faded along with that opinion. That QB was Palmer. I seriously doubt he has enough playing time left to make a HOF career.

    The past several seasons there was a QB who was putting up big numbers every year, but not getting any credit because not making the playoffs. That QB was Brees. He will have to do a lot more in the years he has left to be a HOF'er.

    There once was a QB who held every passing record on the books but never won a championship. That QB was Marino.

    There is a QB that has played for many years, won a lot of games but not a lot of championships. He now holds a lot of the passing records. That QB is Favre. But he will be a HOF'er.

    There are several QB's in the league that are always associated with "one day being great", or "one of the best", but have yet to prove it. Those QB's being Rivers, Cutler, and McNabb. Will any of them make the Hall?

    There are two QB's that have showed they are the top players at the position and they will be HOF'ers. Manning and Brady.

    Ben has that same chance; however forget his body of work this year when not even making the playoffs. I could care less if he ever throws for 4,000 yards again. It didn't get him to the playoffs...or even the Pro Bowl. Granted his win/loss percentage is better than Mannings in the playoffs right now, but time could change that.
    Not making the playoffs doesn't invalidate the year that Ben had as a quarterback. Overall, in aggregate, he had a very good year and one that will help his case for the HOF some year. Provided the Steelers as a team play better next year and Ben has the same type of year the Steelers will be a formidable team during the season and in the playoffs.

    They lost as a team, but there were some players who individually had very good years, Ben and Woodley.

    Papillon

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