Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 22

Thread: Should The Pirates Have Signed Chapman?

      
  1. #1
    Kipper's Avatar
    Status : Kipper is offline
    Rank : Legend
    Join Date : Oct 8, 2009
    Posts : 67,323
    Threads : 1817
    Last Online : Apr-25-2017 @ 08:36 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Should The Pirates Have Signed Chapman?

    http://www.bucsdugout.com/2010/2/21/...es-have-signedShould the Pirates Have Signed Aroldis Chapman?

    by Charlie on Feb 21, 2010 5:46 PM EST 9 comments



    Bob Smizik cracks me up:

    Chass talked to Reds general manager Walt Jocketty, who detailed how the Reds decided to do something drastically different and go after Chapman, who will be 22 later this month.
    ``We started talking about what it would cost," Jocketty acknowledged, ``and I said Ďgee, I donít know that we can do this.í But I talked to ownership about it. I showed our reports to [owner] Bob Castellini and he got excited. We got into it and felt it was important for the long term of this organization."
    Thatís not a philosophy the Pirates would likely take under owner Bob Nutting, and it might be the wrong one. But it was a refreshing change for the teamís fan [sic].
    Yeah, I mean, $30 million on a 22-year-old pitcher might turn out to be a complete waste, but the fans are psyched. Smizik doesn't even try to argue that signing Aroldis Chapman was a good idea from a baseball perspective. He apparently thinks the Reds have done the right thing by throwing some money around, regardless of where it went.


    Chapman obviously has a chance to be great, but his velocity varies from start to start, he doesn't have much of a changeup, and Cuban imports have a collective track record that, for a variety of reasons, is decidedly mixed. When guys like Danys Baez, Yuniesky Betancourt and Jose Contreras (along with more unambiguously-good signings like Kendry Morales and Alexei Ramirez) are among the more successful players, that's not good. As for Chapman himself, Clay Davenport translated his Cuban stats--which aren't nearly as impressive as you might think, from all the hype he's gotten--and the results are downright bad. Davenport ran a list of comparables for Chapman, and the only reasonably successful major league starter in the top twelve is--wait for it--Oliver Perez. After that, there are a few good major league relievers (Mike Gonzalez, Brian Fuentes, Scott Linebrink) and a bunch of nobodies.


    I'm not trying to write off Chapman before his U.S. career even starts, and I think scouting reports should carry more weight than translations of his Cuban stats, given the relative lack of data with which to do the translating. But the amount of risk the Reds are assuming here is crazy. Chapman's velocity and left-handedness are tantalizing, but he's probably more likely, at this point, to flame out completely than to develop into a star. (And even if he reaches the majors, keep in mind that pitcher-killer Dusty Baker will be his manager. Baker has been better with young Reds pitchers like Johnny Cueto and Edinson Volquez than he was with Mark Prior, but the fact that Baker will be the one deciding how much Chapman pitches still doesn't sit well, especially given that Chapman's elbow looks like it's going to break into pieces with every pitch he throws.)

    (Read More....)


    http://www.bucsdugout.com/2010/2/21/...es-have-signed

  2. #2
    Palmetto Steel's Avatar
    Status : Palmetto Steel is offline
    Rank : Legend
    Join Date : Oct 9, 2009
    Posts : 23,379
    Threads : 3263
    Last Online : Nov-30-2015 @ 06:36 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Should The Pirates Have Signed Chapman?

    Even the Buccos won't waste money as the Red's FO will do in this situation...
    "You only have one life, and you will not get out alive. Make the most of your time and have no regrets." - Me.

  3. #3
    Kipper's Avatar
    Status : Kipper is offline
    Rank : Legend
    Join Date : Oct 8, 2009
    Posts : 67,323
    Threads : 1817
    Last Online : Apr-25-2017 @ 08:36 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Should The Pirates Have Signed Chapman?

    Nice article by Charlie and some excellent points that I know we've all sort of touched upon here at one point or another. Just nice seeing it all summed up and of course seeing Bob Smizik get beaten down some more.

    This sums up just about everything Bob Smizik blogs/writes about PERFECTLY

    Yeah, I mean, $30 million on a 22-year-old pitcher might turn out to be a complete waste, but the fans are psyched. Smizik doesn't even try to argue that signing Aroldis Chapman was a good idea from a baseball perspective. He apparently thinks the Reds have done the right thing by throwing some money around, regardless of where it went.

  4. #4
    Palmetto Steel's Avatar
    Status : Palmetto Steel is offline
    Rank : Legend
    Join Date : Oct 9, 2009
    Posts : 23,379
    Threads : 3263
    Last Online : Nov-30-2015 @ 06:36 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Should The Pirates Have Signed Chapman?

    Time will tell... But for now, folks are split on the issue around here in Cincy.
    "You only have one life, and you will not get out alive. Make the most of your time and have no regrets." - Me.

  5. #5
    Kipper's Avatar
    Status : Kipper is offline
    Rank : Legend
    Join Date : Oct 8, 2009
    Posts : 67,323
    Threads : 1817
    Last Online : Apr-25-2017 @ 08:36 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Should The Pirates Have Signed Chapman?

    Quote Originally Posted by NKySteeler View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Time will tell... But for now, folks are split on the issue around here in Cincy.
    No doubt. There's some that are dumb like bob Smizik and think that the only way you win is by throwing out money first, thinking 2nd... there's others that smarter and believe in thinking first, spending second...

    In the case of the Reds they busted a huge wad on a big time percentage bust and small market teams can't afford to take money hits like that

  6. #6
    irahuss's Avatar
    Status : irahuss is offline
    Rank : Waterboy
    Join Date : Oct 16, 2009
    Posts : 157
    Threads : 23
    Last Online : Apr-04-2011 @ 08:54 PM

    Default Re: Should The Pirates Have Signed Chapman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    No doubt. There's some that are dumb like bob Smizik and think that the only way you win is by throwing out money first, thinking 2nd... there's others that smarter and believe in thinking first, spending second...

    In the case of the Reds they busted a huge wad on a big time percentage bust and small market teams can't afford to take money hits like that
    Makes me glad we're in the same division

  7. #7
    PittFaninVa's Avatar
    Status : PittFaninVa is offline
    Rank : All-Star
    Join Date : Oct 28, 2009
    Posts : 2,433
    Threads : 94
    Last Online : Jun-07-2011 @ 10:03 PM

    Default Re: Should The Pirates Have Signed Chapman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    No doubt. There's some that are dumb like bob Smizik and think that the only way you win is by throwing out money first, thinking 2nd... there's others that smarter and believe in thinking first, spending second...

    In the case of the Reds they busted a huge wad on a big time percentage bust and small market teams can't afford to take money hits like that
    If you look at his contract the Reds spread his money out over a number of years so their yearly payout isn't that big of a burden. Jocketty admitted this was a gamble but if Chapman hits then the Reds got themselves a steal.

  8. #8
    cocktailsfor2's Avatar
    Status : cocktailsfor2 is offline
    Rank : Major Leaguer
    Join Date : Oct 23, 2009
    Location : Pirates fan trapped 11 CTA stops north of Wrigley Field
    Posts : 1,233
    Threads : 72
    Last Online : Apr-03-2017 @ 03:32 AM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Should The Pirates Have Signed Chapman?

    Should The Pirates Have Signed Chapman?

    No.
    Free your *** and your mind will follow.
    Hidden Content Hidden Content

  9. #9
    CROSSBONES's Avatar
    Status : CROSSBONES is offline
    Rank : All-Pro
    Join Date : Oct 17, 2009
    Posts : 4,412
    Threads : 215
    Last Online : Aug-15-2016 @ 06:32 PM

    Default Re: Should The Pirates Have Signed Chapman?

    I do not think that Smizik was saying the Pirates should make a similar move. He was just talking about some exitement at an opponents small market team and baiting for some opinions about the subject.

    It's like we have a running game going on here and the Reds are deep bomb threats. Yes, a signing would create some excitement, but I'd rather stay with this slow, plodding, heading in the right direction, running game.

  10. #10
    Mister Pittsburgh's Avatar
    Status : Mister Pittsburgh is offline
    Rank : Major Leaguer
    Join Date : Oct 16, 2009
    Posts : 1,383
    Threads : 122
    Last Online : Apr-27-2013 @ 05:09 PM

    Default Re: Should The Pirates Have Signed Chapman?

    What is the length of the contract? 30 million over how many years?

  11. #11
    jnn123's Avatar
    Status : jnn123 is offline
    Rank : Superstar
    Join Date : Oct 17, 2009
    Posts : 2,954
    Threads : 197
    Last Online : Nov-10-2013 @ 11:50 AM

    Default Re: Should The Pirates Have Signed Chapman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Pittsburgh View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    What is the length of the contract? 30 million over how many years?
    Technically it's a 6 year deal, but it's ridiculously complicated and they don't actually finish paying him until 2020. If Chapman makes the majors this year it could actually become a 3 year $25.5 million deal followed by 3 years of arbitration eligibility.

  12. #12
    Shaker100's Avatar
    Status : Shaker100 is offline
    Rank : 3rd Stringer
    Join Date : Oct 17, 2009
    Posts : 803
    Threads : 31
    Last Online : Jul-18-2017 @ 07:26 PM

    Default Re: Should The Pirates Have Signed Chapman?

    Interesting that Jocketty is the guy pulling a 'hail mary' move like signing Chapman. You would think an older established guy like him would be more conservative like NH is going slow and steady here.

  13. #13
    PittFaninVa's Avatar
    Status : PittFaninVa is offline
    Rank : All-Star
    Join Date : Oct 28, 2009
    Posts : 2,433
    Threads : 94
    Last Online : Jun-07-2011 @ 10:03 PM

    Default Re: Should The Pirates Have Signed Chapman?

    Quote Originally Posted by jnn123 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Technically it's a 6 year deal, but it's ridiculously complicated and they don't actually finish paying him until 2020. [HIGH-LIGHT]If Chapman makes the majors this year it could actually become a 3 year $25.5 million deal followed by 3 years of arbitration eligibility[/HIGH-LIGHT].
    That's one of the reasons he will spend time in the minors.

  14. #14
    Palmetto Steel's Avatar
    Status : Palmetto Steel is offline
    Rank : Legend
    Join Date : Oct 9, 2009
    Posts : 23,379
    Threads : 3263
    Last Online : Nov-30-2015 @ 06:36 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Should The Pirates Have Signed Chapman?

    Chapman getting comfortable on mound
    Rookie hurler works on command during second session

    By Jesse Sanchez / MLB.com
    02/20/10

    GOODYEAR, Ariz. -- Reds rookie Aroldis Chapman threw his second bullpen session of the week Saturday and said he is starting to feel more comfortable each time he goes out on the mound.

    "Today was really good. It went fine," Chapman said. "I think the week is getting better as it goes."

    Chapman primarily threw four-seam fastballs during his 10-minute session but also mixed in a few sliders, changeups and two-seam fastballs. Veteran catcher Corky Miller caught Chapman's session Saturday. Ramon Hernandez caught Chapman's first bullpen session Thursday.

    Class A Dayton pitching coach Tony Fossas and Reds pitching coach Bryan Price stood behind Chapman during the session.

    "Everybody knows about his power and everybody knows that he has to work on his command," Miller said. "Today was a command day, where he was going to try to throw it over the plate. I don't know how hard he is throwing. It's hard to tell when a guy is around the zone."

    Overall, Chapman said he did not feel as strong as he felt Thursday but is pleased with the progress he is making. He is working on his mechanics, which is normal for pitchers at this point of the season.

    "Nobody here is in midseason form," Price said. "He was missing down and away to the left-handed hitters because his shoulder would come open and he'd carry the ball to that side of the plate. But it's a quick adjustment and he understands right away what he needs to do. His aptitude is also what makes him special beyond just his ability to throw the ball."

    Chapman will get another chance to show his stuff soon. He is scheduled to throw another bullpen Monday and face live hitters on Wednesday and Saturday. After facing live hitters, he'll likely throw at least one more bullpen before pitching in a game.

    "What I'm looking forward to is watching him face live hitters and seeing how he goes about his business and the adjustments he makes when needed," Price said. "I want to see how he handles the running game and anything that happens in a game."

    Chapman will be ready.

    "I'm feeling a lot more comfortable here," he said. "I'm getting to know my teammates and getting closer to them."

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...tnerId=rss_cin
    "You only have one life, and you will not get out alive. Make the most of your time and have no regrets." - Me.

  15. #15
    Steelreign's Avatar

    Status : Steelreign is offline
    Rank : Legend
    Join Date : Oct 12, 2009
    Location : Wheatfield, Indiana
    Posts : 18,943
    Threads : 227
    Last Online : Nov-02-2016 @ 07:58 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Should The Pirates Have Signed Chapman?

    No, the Bucs aren't far enough along to justify throwing $30 million at an unknown quantity like Chapman, maybe 4 or 5 years down the road. Now is definitely not the time to deviate from the plan.
    Pittsburgh Sports Forum: Member Driven and no ads

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •