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Thread: Odd PG Q&A Answer

      
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    Default Odd PG Q&A Answer

    Did anyone catch the PG Q&A today?

    http://community.post-gazette.com/bl...aaalvarez.aspx

    Q: I know what the FO's plan is for Pedro Alvarez, but what if he really shines in spring training? Does he still go to Class AAA?

    Ryan Coulson of Yuba City, Calif.

    Q: What precisely do Pedro and Jose [Tabata] need to show in spring training in order to head north with the big club? I honestly see Tabata in Indy to open the season, but what happens if Pedro absolutely mashes this spring? Is there any chance at all for him to start the year at 3B in PNC Park and hitting in the middle of the Bucco order?

    Scott Evans of Springfield, Mo.

    Finder: Great minds think alike about Pedro? And from two such far-off places, too.

    Please remember one thing: Pay no attention to their stats. Good or bad. Because the Pirates management will judge each on their progress at the plate, their approach, their work toward certain objectives, their play in the field, their readiness and maturity. . . a litany of intangibles that show up in no silly spring training numbers. After all, Alvarez hit .444 and Tabata .500 each with five RBI, primarily while facing roster-bubble major-leaguers or minor-leaguers last spring.

    Tabata, on the Andrew McCutchen Plan, is likely headed to Class AAA Indianapolis unless he positively mashes everything (for doubles) and catches everything (at all three outfield positions) and proves himself to be superior to just about every other outfielder but maybe McCutchen. In other words, expect him to return to Indy, where he spent only 32 games, and continue some of the work he started so successfully in the Arizona Fall League: contact, hitting the ball to all fields, toiling on his defensive flexibility further. . . . McCutchen, if you recall, played only 17 games in Indy in 2007 before a full season there the next year and his display of absolute big-league readiness through 49 games last year. So Tabata may well make it to the Pirates in quicker time -- the way he looks now, even before Grapefruit League play, you'd still wager on a June arrival for him.


    Alvarez, on the other hand, is their prize investment. He's their bottle of scotch, their fine wine, their Lamborghini (closer to their actual investment price). They will proceed with caution. They will allow him to ferment, allow him some time in the rack/basement/garage to work on his plate approach, his defense, his continual conditioning, and so on. It is -- sing along with the Pirates management chorus -- "part of the process." They prefer that their prospects spend sufficient time at each level, master various objectives and move upward and onward. Alvarez ripped up high-Class A and Class AA last year, after an adjustment at first. He is expected to do the same at Class AAA, where another adjustment will be needed. McCutchen hit .283 and topped the International League in the dubious statistic of Most Times Caught Stealing, with 19, in his first full season at Indianapolis, which helps to explain the refinement process (there's that word again) the Pirates management felt he needed to continue for two more Indy months at least.

    No wine or scotch will be served before it's time, no Lamborghini prematurely pulled from the garage.Baseball in general and Neal Huntington in particular have seen too many prized prospects rushed and damaged, too many struggling teams promote an unready player to fill a hole.

    The way Alvarez seems to adjust and advance, though, you'd wager a mid-summer arrival on him as well, wouldn't you?

    That is, if you can separate your heart from your wagering supplies.
    How could Finder possibly answer those questions without a single mention of the major league service clock and years of control? It's the biggest factor in the decision. To leave it out is downright irresponsible.

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    Default Re: Odd PG Q&A Answer

    Dejan's coming back on Friday!

    Unfortunately that means Finder's covering the first couple games.

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    Default Re: Odd PG Q&A Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by jnn123 View Post
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    [HIGH-LIGHT]Dejan's coming back on Friday![/HIGH-LIGHT]
    Unfortunately that means Finder's covering the first couple games.

    Hallelujah

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    Default Re: Odd PG Q&A Answer

    Dear Ryan,

    To answer your question, all that is needed is one word. Economics!

    Oh I have 1000 words I have to write so here is a bunch of B.S. a third grader could have come up with.

    Sincerely,
    Chuck

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    Default Re: Odd PG Q&A Answer

    I'm gonna disagree a little here. Yes the clock is a factor, but I think the things he pointed out in the article were valid comments.

    Time the big league club stops getting looked at as a training ground. Let that be down in the minors.

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    Default Re: Odd PG Q&A Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by exNCite View Post
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    I'm gonna disagree a little here. Yes the clock is a factor, but I think the things he pointed out in the article were valid comments.

    Time the big league club stops getting looked at as a training ground. Let that be down in the minors.
    I agree they're valid points if the question is about when the Pirates will promote them to the majors.

    If the question is about how likely they are to break camp with the team, the answer is the Pirates won't be stupid enough to give up a year of control down the road, during their peak years, for an extra couple months of playing time in 2010.

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    Default Re: Odd PG Q&A Answer

    Since years of control was handled... I have to say... Chuck hit the nail square on the head with this paragraph..

    Please remember one thing: Pay no attention to their stats. Good or bad. Because the Pirates management will judge each on their progress at the plate, their approach, their work toward certain objectives, their play in the field, their readiness and maturity. . . a litany of intangibles that show up in no silly spring training numbers. After all, Alvarez hit .444 and Tabata .500 each with five RBI, primarily while facing roster-bubble major-leaguers or minor-leaguers last spring.
    I've said this so many times this offseason. Grapefruit League games don't mean **** when yoou look at numbers. the competition is so watered down and beyond that, every player is working on specifics, some are things that none of us really even know about... You might have a pitcher working solely on his changeup and isn't allowed to throw a curve. the player, the team, the coaches know the kid is going to get hit hard but they jkust want to see how that changeup does...

    I mean this goes to any and usually every batter making adjustments whether it's with their stance or with their swings... pitchers working onspecific pitchers, mechanics, deliveries etc...

    There's just so much that is worked on individually with players in spring Training and in Grapefruit league games that leads me to laugh when there's talks of "competition". Maybe there's an eye on seeing whose "specifics" are doing better but game results are absolutely meaningless as a whole.

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    Default Re: Odd PG Q&A Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by exNCite View Post
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    I'm gonna disagree a little here. Yes the clock is a factor, but I think the things he pointed out in the article were valid comments.

    Time the big league club stops getting looked at as a training ground. Let that be down in the minors.
    This is how I feel too. Too bad Clement will be manning 1B with only one spring training playing 1B.

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    Default Re: Odd PG Q&A Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Pittsburgh View Post
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    This is how I feel too. Too bad Clement will be manning 1B with only one spring training playing 1B.
    I disagree with you and exNCite on this. Why is it time to stop using the majors as a training ground?

    If the Pirates were ready to compete, I'd agree with you. Good teams can't afford to screw around with projects and experiments at the big league level. But the Pirates are nowhere near that point.

    Until they get there, major league playing time is a resource that can, and should, be used for player development. That is a luxury that competing teams don't have. The Pirates should take full advantage. Part of player development is answering questions such as "Can Jeff Clement hit MLB pitching?". You're looking at it as as if Clement is being handed a job. I see it as the Pirates utilizing a valuable resource. Clement might suck, but the Pirates have to find out. And that question can't be answered in AAA or with occasional spot starts.

    Being unwilling to utilize major league playing time as a development tool is how we ended up with Burnitz blocking Craig Wilson, Randa blocking Freddy Sanchez, and Benitio Santiago blocking Ryan Doumit. I'd much rather not go down that road again.

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    Default Re: Odd PG Q&A Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Daskid View Post
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    I disagree with you and exNCite on this. Why is it time to stop using the majors as a training ground?

    If the Pirates were ready to compete, I'd agree with you. Good teams can't afford to screw around with projects and experiments at the big league level. But the Pirates are nowhere near that point.

    Until they get there, major league playing time is a resource that can, and should, be used for player development. That is a luxury that competing teams don't have. The Pirates should take full advantage. Part of player development is answering questions such as "Can Jeff Clement hit MLB pitching?". You're looking at it as as if Clement is being handed a job. I see it as the Pirates utilizing a valuable resource. Clement might suck, but the Pirates have to find out. And that question can't be answered in AAA or with occasional spot starts.

    Being unwilling to utilize major league playing time as a development tool is how we ended up with Burnitz blocking Craig Wilson, Randa blocking Freddy Sanchez, and Benitio Santiago blocking Ryan Doumit. I'd much rather not go down that road again.
    Not to quibble but Craig Wilson had been with the Pirates for 5 seasons before Burnitz was signed. It was widely perceived that Wilson was a defensive liability in the outfield and that he had some weakness at the plate which pitchers were increasingly exploiting by the time the 2006 season started. I'm not saying signing Burnitz was a good idea but it's not like the Craiginator was much better or an up-and-coming star; the sun had pretty much set on his career by the time 2006 rolled around.
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    Default Re: Odd PG Q&A Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by night9hawk View Post
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    Not to quibble but Craig Wilson had been with the Pirates for 5 seasons before Burnitz was signed. It was widely perceived that Wilson was a defensive liability in the outfield and that he had some weakness at the plate which pitchers were increasingly exploiting by the time the 2006 season started. I'm not saying signing Burnitz was a good idea but it's not like the Craiginator was much better or an up-and-coming star; the sun had pretty much set on his career by the time 2006 rolled around.
    To your point Wilson had already had his shot so he isn't the best example.

    (But in those 5 seasons with the Pirates, only once did they give Wilson regular at-bats and he was still just a part-time player despite a career OPS over .850 when Burnitz came to town. Burnitz was 37 years old and coming off a .750 OPS season with defensive metrics as bad or worse than Wilson's. I'd say it was pretty clear who was the better player.)

    My point still isnt about who is an up and coming star and who isn't. It's about using major league playing time to answer important questions about players now, because in a couple years the Pirates hopefully won't have that luxury.

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    Default Re: Odd PG Q&A Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Daskid View Post
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    I disagree with you and exNCite on this. Why is it time to stop using the majors as a training ground?

    If the Pirates were ready to compete, I'd agree with you. Good teams can't afford to screw around with projects and experiments at the big league level. But the Pirates are nowhere near that point.

    Until they get there, major league playing time is a resource that can, and should, be used for player development. That is a luxury that competing teams don't have. The Pirates should take full advantage. Part of player development is answering questions such as "Can Jeff Clement hit MLB pitching?". You're looking at it as as if Clement is being handed a job. I see it as the Pirates utilizing a valuable resource. Clement might suck, but the Pirates have to find out. And that question can't be answered in AAA or with occasional spot starts.

    Being unwilling to utilize major league playing time as a development tool is how we ended up with Burnitz blocking Craig Wilson, Randa blocking Freddy Sanchez, and Benitio Santiago blocking Ryan Doumit. I'd much rather not go down that road again.
    Pretty much dead on.

    This team IS young and inexperienced (outside of the bench and BP), these guys are going to be given that shot now and we can afford to give them that shot now and see how it fairs while we wait on the better talent in the minors to work their way up.

    there was nothing in Free Agency that wasn't "garbage" or "bench" material without the large market teams overpaying for it... so "the offseason" holds no bearing.

    I've said it once and I'll say it again... Jeff Clement WAS NOT traded for to sit on the bench at AAA. He's past his mid 20's, it's time for him to prove whether or not he can hit MLB pitching.

    I swear this topic has been rehashed a bajillion times the past 2 months..

    I think Mister Pittsburgh just likes to see his whining in print

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    Default Re: Odd PG Q&A Answer

    Just IMO:

    1) I have no problem with Finder. In fact, I appreciate his sense of humour and perspective. He certainly doesn't kowtow to the yinzers.

    2) I think he left out the "clock" talk, since EVERYONE knows that is a given at this point, even the aforementioned yinzers.

    3) I agree with Daskid wholeheartedly on this:
    Until they get there, major league playing time is a resource that can, and should, be used for player development. That is a luxury that competing teams don't have. The Pirates should take full advantage.
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    Default Re: Odd PG Q&A Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by cocktailsfor2 View Post
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    Just IMO:

    1) I have no problem with Finder. In fact, I appreciate his sense of humour and perspective. He certainly doesn't kowtow to the yinzers.

    2) I think he left out the "clock" talk, since EVERYONE knows that is a given at this point, even the aforementioned yinzers.

    3) I agree with Daskid wholeheartedly on this:
    I'm not quite sure I agree. Rush 'em too quick and sometimes you get Chad Hermanson and Jose Bautista.
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    Default Re: Odd PG Q&A Answer

    ...and Jose Castillo...

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