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Thread: Things you never think about...

      
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    Default Things you never think about...

    I was pretty surprised by this article at FanGraphs on the differences in pitcher hitting among teams in the NL. Aside from Duke, the Pirates pitchers handle the bats horribly, which can lead to a pretty big difference in run scoring. Compared to the league's average Pirates pitchers contributed a league worst -10 runs at the plate. All of the playoff teams were in positive territory in this category, except the Phillies at an even 0. It's kind of funny given that one of the favorite talking points of Pirate announcers this year was how much all the extra hitting work Tony Beasley did with the Pirate pitchers was paying off. The Pirates would have finished last in the division regardless of how well the pitchers hit, but in tight races these things can actually make a difference.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...and-dh-hitting

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    Default Re: Things you never think about...

    Beasly is prety much a worthless turd. I'm not even trying to be kind but can anyone thing of something that Beasly does that is any good? He's not very good standing there at 3rd base and waving and holding players or giving signs ... Pirates pitchers can't hit. I think Ohlendorf was somethign horrible at the plate.

    I hate to "agree" with a ******bag like Hank Stenbrenner BUT the NL should adopt the DH. With the way pitchers are overly protect this day and age, there's not really much hitting instruction for them to make a big difference. Most pitchers are virtually automatic outs and that sort of drags the game down competitively. Add a CH in the NL, I think the games would be a little mroe exciting especially with what you can do with a batting order/lineup

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    Default Re: Things you never think about...

    So,if the NL adopted the DH,does that mean the Buccos in the WS???

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    Default Re: Things you never think about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Les View Post
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    So,if the NL adopted the DH,does that mean the Buccos in the WS???
    Absolutely not. Just means that we have another hole where we need a power hitter the ncie thing about a DH though is that you can use a ****ty fielder in that slot. DH is what guys like Bay, Bonds etc... became/have become with age and injuries. There's a lot of those types out there, guys with power that aren't worth a **** in the field

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    Default Re: Things you never think about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    I think Ohlendorf was somethign horrible at the plate.
    Based on wOBA there were 6 pitchers in the league with at least 30 plate appearances who were worse than Ross Ohlendorf, but not by much. Zach Duke ranked 13th best which is good, but 11 teams had one pitcher better than him and the Diamondbacks had 2. Interestingly, aside from a few guys (notably Micah Owings and Mike Hampton and 1 and 2) the top 30 hitting pitchers are all pretty good starters as well. Maybe it has something to do with having a better understanding of the game in general that leads to them knowing what to look for at the plate.

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    Default Re: Things you never think about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    Absolutely not. Just means that we have another hole where we need a power hitter the ncie thing about a DH though is that you can use a ****ty fielder in that slot. DH is what guys like Bay, Bonds etc... became/have become with age and injuries. There's a lot of those types out there, guys with power that aren't worth a **** in the field
    AWESOME!!!!Hey,I hear Barry Bonds is looking for work.

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    Default Re: Things you never think about...

    Quote Originally Posted by jnn123 View Post
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    Based on wOBA there were 6 pitchers in the league with at least 30 plate appearances who were worse than Ross Ohlendorf, but not by much. Zach Duke ranked 13th best which is good, but 11 teams had one pitcher better than him and the Diamondbacks had 2. Interestingly, aside from a few guys (notably Micah Owings and Mike Hampton and 1 and 2) the top 30 hitting pitchers are all pretty good starters as well. Maybe it has something to do with having a better understanding of the game in general that leads to them knowing what to look for at the plate.
    Might also be worth tracing them back to the minors and seeing how time they had hitting as well. For instance someone like Ohlendorf I swear I read that he never got many AB's in the Yanks system

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    Default Re: Things you never think about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    Might also be worth tracing them back to the minors and seeing how time they had hitting as well. For instance someone like Ohlendorf I swear I read that he never got many AB's in the Yanks system
    In the minors pitchers never hit until AA and even then it's only if both teams are NL affiliates, which isn't the case often in many leagues. No one who comes up in an AL system ever gets to hit unless something weird happens and they wind up pinch hitting. Ohlendorf got his start in the Arizona organization, though, and spent time in the Southern League, which is a very NL dominated league (7 NL teams and 3 AL) compared to the Eastern League (5 NL, 7 AL). The Southern League probably features more pitchers hitting than any other minor league. Pirate pitchers in general get very limited exposure to hitting in the minors. As an example, Brad Lincoln made 25 starts this year and wound up with 15 plate appearances (7 games where he hit). Ohlendorf made 27 starts in the Southern League and wound up with 52 plate appearances in 2006 (21 games where he hit). Seems like the Southern League is the place to be if you want your pitchers to get experience at the plate.
    Last edited by jnn123; Oct-19-2009 at 03:54 PM.

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    Default Re: Things you never think about...

    Hmmm... interesting. So Ohlendorf most likely just flat out stinks at hitting

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    Default Re: Things you never think about...

    Luckily it looks like help may be coming. Lincoln has very little professional experience, but out of college he was considered a legitimate draft prospect as a hitter as well. He played almost every day in the field and hit 14 HR his junior year. Tim Alderson was also a pretty good high school hitter, and had 2 HR in only 13 ABs in AA this year.

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    Default Re: Things you never think about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    Beasly is prety much a worthless turd. I'm not even trying to be kind but can anyone thing of something that Beasly does that is any good? He's not very good standing there at 3rd base and waving and holding players or giving signs ... Pirates pitchers can't hit. I think Ohlendorf was somethign horrible at the plate.

    I hate to "agree" with a ******bag like Hank Stenbrenner BUT [HIGH-LIGHT]the NL should adopt the DH[/HIGH-LIGHT]. With the way pitchers are overly protect this day and age, there's not really much hitting instruction for them to make a big difference. Most pitchers are virtually automatic outs and that sort of drags the game down competitively. Add a CH in the NL, I think the games would be a little mroe exciting especially with what you can do with a batting order/lineup
    It makes no sense what so ever, when the you have inter-league play,not to mention the World Series, you have two sets of rules
    Are these morons getting dumber or just louder-Mayor Quimby

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    Default Re: Things you never think about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    Beasly is prety much a worthless turd. I'm not even trying to be kind but can anyone thing of something that Beasly does that is any good? He's not very good standing there at 3rd base and waving and holding players or giving signs ... Pirates pitchers can't hit. I think Ohlendorf was somethign horrible at the plate.

    I hate to "agree" with a ******bag like Hank Stenbrenner BUT the NL should adopt the DH. With the way pitchers are overly protect this day and age, there's not really much hitting instruction for them to make a big difference. Most pitchers are virtually automatic outs and that sort of drags the game down competitively. Add a CH in the NL, I think the games would be a little mroe exciting especially with what you can do with a batting order/lineup
    Screw the DH. If you aren't capable of playing in the field, go join a softball league. A bunch of overpaid ex-players. The union will never agree to do away with the DH. My motta is: if the union is against it, I am for it.

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    Default Re: Things you never think about...

    The Braves pitchers in the '90s could swing the bats well as a group. It was a source of pride and competition between them.
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    Default Re: Things you never think about...

    Quote Originally Posted by CPA17 View Post
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    Screw the DH. If you aren't capable of playing in the field, go join a softball league. A bunch of overpaid ex-players. The union will never agree to do away with the DH. My motta is: if the union is against it, I am for it.
    I mean ultimately I'd be in favor of coaches and team de-pussifying players like pitchers with the lack of hitting instruction, running bases, pitch counts but they are babies from the time they enter an organization anymore, I just see it getting worse never returning to days of old. With the way that's going, we're better off adopting the DH so I don't have to watch pampered pitchers go up to the plate and be automatic outs at least 3 times per game

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    Default Re: Things you never think about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelreign View Post
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    The Braves pitchers in the '90s could swing the bats well as a group. It was a source of pride and competition between them.
    Pitchers back then as a whole were better hitters than they are now. Like I was saying in my other post, they also weren't babied, restricted by pitch counts and not taken somewhat seriously as hitters by their coaches. Nowadays, coaches would rather get a jacket on their multi million dollar arms and get them out of harms way (batters box and running somewhere)

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