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Thread: Shero...Overrated

      
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    Default Shero...Overrated

    May 16, 2010 9:18 AM
    SHERO ISN'T PERFECT
    Posted by mvuk
    With the hockey season over with, it's time to evaluate everyone and that includes Pens General Manager Ray Shero. I've noticed that he's a guy that rarely gets questioned or criticized by the media. I'm not here to say he's done a bad job, only to say that his reputation might be abit overrated.

    First of all, the Penguins made the Stanley Cup Finals in consecutive seasons because of the core put together by former GM Craig Patrick. That group of players includes Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin, Marc-Andre Fleury, Sergei Gonchar, Kris Letang, Max Talbot, Rob Scuderi. Shero did draft Jordan Staal and acquired Marian Hossa, Billy Guerin and Hal Gill but they won the Cup because of the core.

    To this point, the Shero era is entirely known for his deadline deals. He's done alot of trading away the future in order to help the present and alot of time that's helped. However, he has traded a lot of prospects and draft picks in order to do this. Let's take a look:

    2006-07 Season:
    *Traded Noah Welch to Florida for Gary Roberts (Good deal)
    *Traded Daniel Carcillo and a 3rd round pick to Phoenix for Georges Laraque (Real bad deal, I'd love to have Carcillo on this team, plus he included a 3rd round pick)
    *Traded a fourth round pick (2007) to Florida for Joel Kwiatkowski
    *Acquired left wing Nils Ekman and goaltender Patrick Ehelechner from San Jose in exchange for a 2007 second-round pick. (Another wasted 2nd round pick)
    *Signed Mark Eaton to a 2-year deal (Good signing)

    2007-08 Season:
    *Acquired Hal Gill from the Toronto Maple Leafs for a second and fifth round draft pick in 2008. (Good deal because they won the Cup but another traded 2nd round pick)
    *Acquired Marian Hossa and Pascal Dupuis from the Atlanta Thrasers in exchange for Colby Armstrong, Erik Christensen, Angelo Esposito and a first round draft pick in 2008 (Alot given away for a rent a player.....Top prospect plus a 1st round pick (Is this one of the reasons that the Penguins haven't been able to develop a solid winger in years? Just asking)
    *Acquire a third-round round pick in 2007 from Atlanta Thrashers for Chris Thorburn.

    2008-09 Season:
    *Traded a 2nd round pick for Bill Guerin (Good deal)
    *Claimed forward Craig Adams off waivers from the Chicago Blackhawks. (Good signing)
    *Acquired left wing Chris Kunitz and winger Eric Tangradi from the Anaheim Ducks in exchange for defenseman Ryan Whitney (Good deal but I don't think Kunitz is worth $4 million per season.....This will be a real good deal if Tangradi turns into a productive winger)
    *Signed forward Matt Cooke to a two-year contract worth $1.2M per year. (Very good deal, maybe on of his best)
    *Signed forward Miroslav Satan to a one-year $3.5M contract and forward Ruslan Fedotenko to a one-year $2.25M contract. (Not good deals)
    *Signed right wing Eric Godard to a three-year, $2.25M deal. (Alot of money for a goon)

    2009-10 Season:
    *Acquired defenseman Jordan Leopold from Florida in exchange for a second round pick in the 2010 NHL Amateur Draft. (Leopold was bad defensively and wasn't worth a 2nd round pick)
    * Obtained forward Alexi Ponikarovsky from Toronto in exchange for Luca Caputi and Martin Skoula. (I'd rather have Caputi)


    Here are two other observations: 1) When talking about Rob Scuderi everyone says the Pens couldn't afford to keep everyone and Scuderi priced himself out of Pittsburgh. True, but, he wouldn't have priced himself out if the Penguins would've thought ahead and signed him prior to the season and not let him reach his free agent year. Same goes for Matt Cooke. Unless he decides to give the Penguins a hometown discount, Cooke is gone. He'll command too much on the open market. The Penguins knew what they had with Cooke and shouldn't have let him become a free agent. 2) Why haven't the Penguins and Shero been able to develop a winger in 4-5 years? It's amazing that not one winger has been able to be developed since acquiring Crosby and Malkin? Why is that? The sad part is that aside from Tangradi (who they didn't draft), there's still nothing in the minors. All of the winger prospects with the Baby Pens team are all considered to be 3rd line players. What's going on with the Penguins drafting? Maybe they haven't been able to draft an wingers because they've traded away some many high picks for rent a players.

    Shero has done an OK job as Pens GM but he has a lot of work to do to convince me that he's better than Craig Patrick.

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    Default Re: Shero...Overrated

    This Goofball is a a producer at KDKA-TV where they have had the Complete IDIOTS Jory Rand & Paul Alexander as Sports Anchors ??

    It's amazing that not one winger has been able to be developed since acquiring Crosby and Malkin? Why is that? HUH ???? Drafting Middle of 1st Round or Lower will do that & Drafting Staal when they could have Had Toews or Kessel !! or Backstrom a Real honest to God Top 2 Line Center

    The Problem with Leopold was that he was Matched with a TURD Gogo & He would Rather Have Caputi who can't Skate, Can't Shoot & spends more time on His Knees than Monica Blewclinsky in the Oral Office!! Yeah I want a TURD who is going to have to improve VASTLY to Become Fedostinko !!

    More Avoiding the real Problem which is 3 Centers at 21.4 Mill & Coaching !!! Yeo In Particular
    Last edited by Evilpens; May-17-2010 at 08:31 AM.

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    Default Re: Shero...Overrated

    This article is overrated.

    Seriously, very few actual valid points here. The fact that he thinks the Hossa deal was bad for us tells me that he has very little understanding of the NHL. The second best player in the deal ended up being.....Dupuis. No one that Shero traded away has been any more valuable to their team than Dupuis, if we really wanted EC we could have claimed him on waivers like 3 times by now.
    And yes I'm sure the reason that they haven't been able to develop wingers is that they traded Espisito and a first round pick that was basically a second round pick.
    I also like that he says that the Gill trade was good, but throws the caveat in there that they did trade away another 2nd round pick. As if to say that they could have gotten him for less??? If Shero had tried to get him for a 3rd round pick instead I have serious doubts that we see them win the cup last year. If you want good players, you have to give something up. Not every deal can be a steal.
    This article is based totally around hindsight. Saying now that you would rather have Caputi than Poni is incredibly obvious.....now. Saying that they should have extended Scuds and Matt Cooke, would carry much more weight if he was saying it BEFORE they had career seasons and increased their values.
    And our lack of wingers can be explained easily if you look at how they have used their draft picks, how much room they have against the salary cap, and their strength down the middle.
    If the pens had won game 7 this guy would be praising Shero.

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    Default Re: Shero...Overrated

    I'd Love to see Cooke resigned, But Guys like Cooke are a DIME A DOZEN !!! Hal Gill didn't look to great Last Night Did He?? Scuderi is what he is !! If LA wouldn't have lost out on EVERY FA they tried to sign, They wouldn't Have VASTLY overpayed for Scuderi, You can't do that with a Salary Cap!! Go look at Scuderi's NUmbers for the season & Compare them with Sean O'Donnell a Journeyman Tough Guy D Man

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    Default Re: Shero...Overrated

    I just wonder how many of these deals were Ray's idea and how many came down from ownership? The Penguins organization has a young owner, a young GM, a young coach, a young Captain and several young superstars. That's alot of youth and inexperience. Last season, eveything fell into place and the Pens won the cup. This year, youth and inexperience may have caught up with them. Just because the Pens won the cup once doesn't guaranty they'll do it again. It doesn't even guaranty they know how they did it! Hopefully this season is used as a learning tool and everyone from top to bottom, grows a little wiser!

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    Default Re: Shero...Overrated

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilpens View Post
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    I'd Love to see Cooke resigned, But Guys like Cooke are a DIME A DOZEN !!! Hal Gill didn't look to great Last Night Did He?? Scuderi is what he is !! If LA wouldn't have lost out on EVERY FA they tried to sign, They wouldn't Have VASTLY overpayed for Scuderi, You can't do that with a Salary Cap!! Go look at Scuderi's NUmbers for the season & Compare them with Sean O'Donnell a Journeyman Tough Guy D Man
    I don't know if Cooke is a dime a dozen I mean sure he is replaceable to no doubt about that but I think he is pretty **** good at what he does but I still don't get the Scuds thing. If he is so ordinary then you are pretty confident that they will be able to get someone equal to him in this offseason? because we didn't do to well last off season. I guess they thought Eaton would be ok in that roll Looks to me like Eaton will be the token shot blocker next year too since there is no one else. I hope I am wrong would love to see Eaton go bye bye.

    Anyway sorry I didn't even read the article. One of these days I will learn how to read but from the looks of the comments here it wouldn't be worth my time anyway. But he might be overrated a tad or was at least I mean it seemed that he has the midas touch but I think recently he starts to look more human but you can't be on the money every time. A lot of these trades are a big gamble, there must be a reason that these guys are getting dealt for prospects. So he is not King Midas no but I still like him as our GM.

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    Default Re: Shero...Overrated

    This guy pretty much shot his argument in the foot by listing all of Shero's deals. Not one of those deals is flat out bad. Yeah, I don't like Eaton, but I wouldn't call the deal "bad".

    In all of those deals, he really only gave away 2 NHL players...Armstrong and Whitney (i'm not counting Caputi or Skoula because neither were playing for us). Most people here would have given Whitney away for new zamboni tires. And a guy like Armstrong is a dime a dozen.

    And I'm still torn about Carcillo...he might be the kind of guy I'd love if he were on my team, but because he plays for the Flyers I have an unfathomable hatred for him. (and I'm not suggesting that the Laraque deal was bad, it wasn't, I'm just contemplating what we actually gave away)
    The only player in the NHL more overpaid than MAF is Jordan Staal

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    Default Re: Shero...Overrated

    That article I read less words than the average Ron Cook article, I now have a headache. One disappointing end to a playoff run and suddenly everyone sucks at their jobs and should be subject to harsh evaluation, jeez.

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    Default Re: Shero...Overrated

    IMO the article is wacky. After you read the list of acquisitions, he then comes to the conclusion that Shero is overrated? There are more good acquistions than bad, and very few really bad ones.

    Sure, every GM misses, but that's to be expected. A number of the trades or releases of guys we dumped were heavily applauded at the time they happened. Now, when hindsight is 20/20, some dip**** says "how could we trade that guy, or how could we let him go?"

    Shero's been criticized for not keeping Scuds or Gill, but people forget that Scuds was basically a one year hit - he took more criticism in previous years than anyone would like to remember. As for Gill, he was somewhat viewd as a pylon when he got here, but cranked it up in his free agency year for the playoffs. He looked like **** for a large part of this year, and Canadien fans rode him like only those jackasses can do. Not to mention the salary cap issues with signing either one.

    Shero is handcuffed by the cap, like everyon else. The way I see it, he has two major challenges going forward - salary cap management and the strenghtening of the farm system. Without either one we'll never see another cup in the near future - superstars or no superstars.

    I'll reserve judgment on Shero for a bit to see how he deals with those two parameters.
    Last edited by Crosby Clan; May-17-2010 at 07:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Shero...Overrated

    i think that shero will be dialing down the trades this year. We won the cup and had a very good shot at doing it again this year, but we lost and now i think shero will stop and take some time to retool. If it were me i would be selling at the trade deadline next year, get a couple of more bodies in the farm system or draft picks and see what we can shake out.

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    Default Re: Shero...Overrated

    Holland traded Mike Knuble; a pick that ended up being Patrick Sharp; Tomas Fleischmann and a pick that ended up being Mike Green; and Ville Leino....does that mean he's overrated too?

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    Default Re: Shero...Overrated

    Quote Originally Posted by jleisele58 View Post
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    i think that shero will be dialing down the trades this year. We won the cup and had a very good shot at doing it again this year, but we lost and now i think shero will stop and take some time to retool. [HIGH-LIGHT]If it were me i would be selling at the trade deadline next year, get a couple of more bodies in the farm system or draft picks and see what we can shake out[/HIGH-LIGHT].

    You don't sell at the trade deadline when you are a stanley cup contender, that is just ridiculous. If you are a GM, and your team has a legitimate shot at winning the Cup, you do everything you can to make that happen, you dont sell off talent to build a farm system when you are at the top of the Mountain.

    I would give up late first round picks all day long if it meant my team was that much closer to winning the stanley cup. What would you rather have, a late first round draft pick or a legitimate top 6 winger to play along with the 2 best centers in the game? (Colby Armstrong was drafted 20th overall for a reference point).

    When you are as close as the penguins are to winning the cup, you have to take advantage of it while the window is open. We arent going to have Geno AND Sid forever.

    And as far as our farm system goes, we do have some legitimate NHL caliber talent down there...whether or not the pens ever take advantage of that is a different story. We just have to draft better with the picks we do have, and hope it pans out. Complaining about losing a 2nd round draft pick for a guy who helped us win a Stanley Cup is just about the dumbest statement a guy can make.
    The only player in the NHL more overpaid than MAF is Jordan Staal

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    Default Re: Shero...Overrated

    WE have 1 guy who can be a top 6 forward IN WBS taht is is. Mostly 3rd and 4th liners. We need to fix that, we have a ton of Dman that will be here over the next couple of seasons.


    I hope We can move a guy like TK for a mid pick cause his cap hit can go towards upgrading D. Guys like Lestu and Johnson can take his spot.

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    Default Re: Shero...Overrated

    Quote Originally Posted by Hittman View Post
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    WE have 1 guy who can be a top 6 forward IN WBS taht is is. Mostly 3rd and 4th liners. We need to fix that, we have a ton of Dman that will be here over the next couple of seasons.


    I hope We can move a guy like TK for a mid pick cause his cap hit can go towards upgrading D. Guys like Lestu and Johnson can take his spot.
    I think this is why the big pick up needs to be at least one winger this off-season. Looks like Lovejoy is in next year maybe even one or two others. It is going to be a really young defense tho yikes Orpik will be the old man of the bunch. Going to be prone to a lot of bed ****ting again defensively. So again need that scoring winger lol And yeah I am over TK. Never was the hugest TK fan but this year he was a waste and I don't see much upside.

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    Default Re: Shero...Overrated

    Quote Originally Posted by Hittman View Post
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    WE have 1 guy who can be a top 6 forward IN WBS taht is is.[HIGH-LIGHT] Mostly 3rd and 4th liners.[/HIGH-LIGHT] We need to fix that, we have a ton of Dman that will be here over the next couple of seasons.


    I hope We can move a guy like TK for a mid pick cause his cap hit can go towards upgrading D. Guys like Lestu and Johnson can take his spot.
    That is what the minor leagues are...mostly 3rd and 4th liners. very rarely do you find superstar forwards in the waiting in the Minors. The guys who are legitimate top 6 forwards are brought to the NHL from Jr's or from college or from their eurotrash teams. Players who go to the AHL aren't usually your top 6 forward types. Players who are drafted at 18 can still play JR's until they turn 21, if they haven't developed into an NHL ready player by that time, they are usually busts.

    Now, defensemen is a different story. They usually take longer to develop than forwards, therefore the AHL is a necessity for defensemen in general.
    The only player in the NHL more overpaid than MAF is Jordan Staal

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