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Thread: Time to Move McCutchen back to Leadoff Spot?

      
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    Default Time to Move McCutchen back to Leadoff Spot?

    DK quoted Russel on Aki in the leadoff spot:

    "If he's going to get out of this, you'd like to get him up there as much as you can," Russell said. "We have put different guys in the leadoff spot, and Andrew McCutchen can do it, but he's doing well in the No. 3 spot. We don't have that typical leadoff guy. When Aki's doing good things, he fits that role pretty well because he works the count, and he's starting to swing better now."

    This blogger makes a strong case for moving Cutch back in the leadoff spot and I think I agree with him... No point in putting your best hitter in the three hole if no one is gonna get on base in front of him.

    "....
    The Pirates have basically taken Andrew McCutchen from being a leadoff hitter with no outs, to being a leadoff hitter with two outs. With the prolonged slump of Aki Iwamura, and the recent slump of Andy LaRoche, the whole theory of "bat McCutchen third to get more RBI opportunities" just doesn't cut it. If you've got a good leadoff hitter, the plan might work. Without a good leadoff hitter, there's no point to batting McCutchen third, especially when he can be that leadoff hitter the team so desperately needs.

    The Pirates definitely have that typical leadoff guy. He's just batting third, where he's doing everything that is asked of a leadoff man, only most of the time he's doing it with two outs."
    Read more: http://www.buccofans.com/#ixzz0p8kr5V98
    Last edited by tocchet92; May-27-2010 at 09:39 AM.

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    Default Re: Time to Move McCutchen back to Leadoff Spot?

    What's wrong with putting Tabata there? Right now our batting order should be:

    1. Tabata, RF
    2. Walker, 3B/2B
    3. McCutchen, CF
    4. Jones, 1B
    5. Doumit, C
    6. Milledge (who else we got?)
    7. LaRoche/Iwamura (depending)
    8. Cedeno
    9. Pitcher (or the opposite whatever)

    Tabata is more than capable of leading off...he's got the speed once he gets on...he has 19 stolen bases already in AAA. He's got the average (.326 in AAA) and right now he's not having the power numbers...but he hits doubles...he's got a good OBP...his BB/K ratio is a little undesirable.
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    Default Re: Time to Move McCutchen back to Leadoff Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBen2112 View Post
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    What's wrong with putting Tabata there? Right now our batting order should be:

    1. Tabata, RF
    2. Walker, 3B/2B
    3. McCutchen, CF
    4. Jones, 1B
    5. Doumit, C
    6. Milledge (who else we got?)
    7. LaRoche/Iwamura (depending)
    8. Cedeno
    9. Pitcher (or the opposite whatever)

    Tabata is more than capable of leading off...he's got the speed once he gets on...he has 19 stolen bases already in AAA. He's got the average (.326 in AAA) and right now he's not having the power numbers...but he hits doubles...he's got a good OBP...his BB/K ratio is a little undesirable.
    Is it time to give up on Jeff Clement? I think he gets at least another month to prove himself.

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    Default Re: Time to Move McCutchen back to Leadoff Spot?

    I think once Andy is healthy, Aki should be put on the DL, They can call up Tabata and let him play LF and lead off. Jones will play 1st for most of the time because Clement is still working with Long and sending him down now doesn`t do him any good.

    Tabata is our future lead off guy and can do what MCcuthen did last year, get on and run.

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    Default Re: Time to Move McCutchen back to Leadoff Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by tocchet92 View Post
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    Is it time to give up on Jeff Clement? I think he gets at least another month to prove himself.
    Clement deserves the entire year to get it right.

    We wanted him to be a bopper right?

    Well he has 70 less AB's than Jones and Cutch, and 40 less than Doumit (the team leaders with 5 HR's) and he's only one behind them with 4.

    He's got a lot to work on, don't get me wrong, but to give up on him now (I believe he's out of options?), with those power numbers (that we wanted him to have) is just wrong.

    Over a safe estimate of a full season of 550 AB's, that projects to 31 HR's.

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    Default Re: Time to Move McCutchen back to Leadoff Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by vandelay industries View Post
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    Clement deserves the entire year to get it right.

    We wanted him to be a bopper right?

    Well he has 70 less AB's than Jones and Cutch, and 40 less than Doumit (the team leaders with 5 HR's) and he's only one behind them with 4.

    He's got a lot to work on, don't get me wrong, but to give up on him now (I believe he's out of options?), with those power numbers (that we wanted him to have) is just wrong.

    Over a safe estimate of a full season of 550 AB's, that projects to 31 HR's.
    I dont know if that's really how he projects or not man...I do know, though, that we need a leadoff hitter and that guy is Tabata and you'd like to get him in the lineup and you certainly do not want to sacrifice Jones to do that...sacrifice Milledge?
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    Default Re: Time to Move McCutchen back to Leadoff Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBen2112 View Post
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    ...sacrifice Milledge?
    I think that is what a callup of Tabata will mean.

    When that happens, Milledge probably becomes the fourth OF and Young or Church will be jettisoned. I suspect that NH wants to trade Church at the deadline but Church isn't cooperating with his performance thus far.

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    Default Re: Time to Move McCutchen back to Leadoff Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBen2112 View Post
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    I dont know if that's really how he projects or not man...I do know, though, that we need a leadoff hitter and that guy is Tabata and you'd like to get him in the lineup and you certainly do not want to sacrifice Jones to do that...sacrifice Milledge?

    No, I'm not addressing the gist of the thread, someone brought up Clement and I just gave my take on him. Those are the numbers he has. Just plain and simple.

    I'm not ready to bring Tabata up. He's barely had half a full season's worth of AB's in AAA (312 AB's). As a comparison, Cutch had about a year and a half worth (780 AAA AB's) upon his callup.

    Tabata's playing well, don't get me wrong, but I think we should keep him in AAA for seasoning, future FA and contract implications (it's just a fact of the business side of the game as it is), and to get a longer/legit look at guys we just got last year in trades (Clement and Milledge for example).

    Lastly, where is this team going this year? Nowhere really. What's it gonna hurt to keep Tagbata in AAA and for us to keep those guys in the lineup for a look?

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    Default Re: Time to Move McCutchen back to Leadoff Spot?

    Jones plays 4 out of every 7 games at 1st while tabata and Milledge play OF. The other 3 games goes to clement and then milledge sets.
    RIght now they are platooing Milledge with Church so they coud still do that, Milledge has no power or speed and is average defensively the only thing he has going for him is he is 25 and wa a top prosect a couple of years ago.

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    Default Re: Time to Move McCutchen back to Leadoff Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by vandelay industries View Post
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    No, I'm not addressing the gist of the thread, someone brought up Clement and I just gave my take on him. Those are the numbers he has. Just plain and simple.

    I'm not ready to bring Tabata up. He's barely had half a full season's worth of AB's in AAA (312 AB's). As a comparison, Cutch had about a year and a half worth (780 AAA AB's) upon his callup.

    Tabata's playing well, don't get me wrong, but I think we should keep him in AAA for seasoning, future FA and contract implications (it's just a fact of the business side of the game as it is), and to get a longer/legit look at guys we just got last year in trades (Clement and Milledge for example).

    Lastly, where is this team going this year? Nowhere really. What's it gonna hurt to keep Tagbata in AAA and for us to keep those guys in the lineup for a look?
    You could say the same thing about Alvarez and Lincoln...
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    Default Re: Time to Move McCutchen back to Leadoff Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBen2112 View Post
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    You could say the same thing about Alvarez and Lincoln...

    Agreed.

    And since you brought them up, I don't believe that Alvarez should be brought up now/this year.

    I could however be talked into Lincoln coming up because bringing him up, although his time in AAA is short, as you point out, there's not as much 'roster blocking' for him as there is with Tabata. I would like him to remain down though unless a situation arose (starter injured or tanks bad etc) that necessitates him being up.

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    Default Re: Time to Move McCutchen back to Leadoff Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by vandelay industries View Post
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    Agreed.

    And since you brought them up, I don't believe that Alvarez should be brought up now/this year.

    I could however be talked into Lincoln coming up because bringing him up, although his time in AAA is short, as you point out, there's not as much 'roster blocking' for him as there is with Tabata. I would like him to remain down though unless a situation arose (starter injured or tanks bad etc) that necessitates him being up.
    Hmm...I would like to see Alvarez hit LHs better and have a better average before he gets brought up...he may need the whole season down there.

    For Lincoln I would want to continue to see increase in velocity and strike out numbers...

    I am, a little like you, indifferent to the major league roster right now...there are some things that can be done/would be interesting or whatever, but right now I am more interested in the minor league positioning.

    Another couple solid starts and I think it will be time to move Rudy Owens to AAA...Justin Wilson, if he continues to pitch how he has the month of May also may be looking at a July AAA promotion. If Danny Moskos continues to dominate the late innings like he has he likewise should get a July promotion.

    AAA is our worst pitching affiliate right now and after the draft I hope to see that change as pitchers are moved around. Alderson is likely to stay at AA and he really does need it...but you could see two maybe 3 players move to AAA...

    Those changes are almost as important to me as the major league promotions.
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    Default Re: Time to Move McCutchen back to Leadoff Spot?

    I understand the desperation that some of you/us are feeling, but there's really no need to rush guys to the ML roster just because a few guys suck. The goal here is to have solid players throughout, and that involves proper seasoning before bringing them to the ML level.

    Agreed with you all that I'm in no rush for Tabata and Alvarez if they need some more time down on the farm. I love the idea of seeing our top prospects make it up, but I don't want them here until they're ready.

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    Default Re: Time to Move McCutchen back to Leadoff Spot?

    Here's the most current example, that I can think of, of a player rushed too quickly.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...illean01.shtml

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    Default Re: Time to Move McCutchen back to Leadoff Spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by just_ridin View Post
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    I understand the desperation that some of you/us are feeling, but there's really no need to rush guys to the ML roster just because a few guys suck. The goal here is to have solid players throughout, and that involves proper seasoning before bringing them to the ML level.

    Agreed with you all that I'm in no rush for Tabata and Alvarez if they need some more time down on the farm. I love the idea of seeing our top prospects make it up, but I don't want them here until they're ready.
    I actually disagree about Tabata...hopefully I am wrong, but I feel like he's reached his peak performance (in regards to the type of player he is)...I do not think he'll develop 20 HR potential...I think that what you see now with Tabata is what the Pirates are going to get. I think to me that means he's ready. The kid may not have spent much time in AAA, but he's hitting like Neil Walker was before his call up...remember that it wasn't until McCutchen started to hit like Tabata is now that he was called up. I do not think they'll call tabata up, but I think he's "ready" as he'll be...

    Alvarez and others, as I detailed above, I think have some more work to do.

    In general I agree that "rushing" players is always a bad idea especially to the majors. I do think, though, there are some players who are deserving of promotions internal to the minor league system (again as I detailed above).
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