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Thread: Is Karstens one of our better SP?

      
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    Default Is Karstens one of our better SP?

    After a rough start and demotion to the bullpen, is/has Karstens becoming our most reliable starting pitcher after being made a starter again? I am not a major stats evaluator type, and am sure some of you guys can look at all the numbers and agree or disagree with this but here is what I was looking at....

    May 2 - 5 IP - 6 ER
    May 8 - 6 IP - 0 ER
    May 11 - 1.2 IP - 4 ER
    May 17 - 2.1 IP - 1 ER
    May 20 - 0.2 IP - 0 ER
    May 21 - 3.1 IP - 1 ER
    May 24 - 2.1 IP - 2 ER
    May 27 - 4.0 IP - 1 ER
    June 1 - 6.0 IP - 2 ER
    June 8 - 5.0 IP - 4 ER
    June 13 - 7 IP - 2 ER
    June 19 - 5.1 IP - 4 ER
    June 24 - 5.1 IP - 2 ER
    June 29 - 6.0 IP - 2 ER


    Sorry if I am blatantly off here. Just watched Karstens last two starts, not intentionally but he just happened to be pitching, and he looked decent. Maybe there just isn't all that much positive to talk about as of late so I am looking for something to grasp hold of......

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    Default Re: Is Karstens one of our better SP?

    He currently may be one of the more consistent...but his talent level just is barely within the rotation...5th starter really.
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    Default Re: Is Karstens one of our better SP?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBen2112 View Post
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    He currently may be one of the more consistent...but his talent level just is barely within the rotation...5th starter really.
    Benny I hear what you're saying, but if he can get us some W's, it makes no difference to me what # he's tagged with. A little offensive support would be nice because as Mr.P's stats indicate, he's certainly pitched well enough.

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    Default Re: Is Karstens one of our better SP?

    Quote Originally Posted by exNCite View Post
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    Benny I hear what you're saying, but if he can get us some W's, it makes no difference to me what # he's tagged with. A little offensive support would be nice because as Mr.P's stats indicate, he's certainly pitched well enough.
    But in the long run it does matter, I think. Why? Because its about talent evaluation and honestly if his talent tops out at a #5 guy then you certainly cant slot him more than that for the long run. Plus in terms of consistency we'll have to see this the rest of the season to really know if he's consistently going to give this type of performance.
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    Default Re: Is Karstens one of our better SP?

    Currently, yup.

    He's eating innings and not getting crushed, like some pitchers are.

    On this team that's like being the tallest midget at a midget convention, but it still makes him one of our best pitchers currently, regardless of talent level.

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    Default Re: Is Karstens one of our better SP?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBen2112 View Post
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    He currently may be one of the more consistent...but his talent level just is barely within the rotation...5th starter really.

    He has had 9 starts and has an overall 4.13 ERA as a starter. For this staff, only Maholm is better. He is third in innings pitched. He gives the team a chance to win. That is better than what a 5th starter usually offers his team.

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    Default Re: Is Karstens one of our better SP?

    Quote Originally Posted by DBinAL View Post
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    He has had 9 starts and has an overall 4.13 ERA as a starter. For this staff, only Maholm is better. He is third in innings pitched. He gives the team a chance to win. That is better than what a 5th starter usually offers his team.
    I think you need to look more at his career numbers (including minors) not just at a series of starts to determine his talent level/upside.

    Those numbers indicate he's at best a end of the rotation starter. I hope he continues to pitch well, but really he'll likely come back down to his career numbers.
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    Default Re: Is Karstens one of our better SP?

    I have become a Jeff Karstens fan. His work is under appreciated. He could anchor the 4-5 spot for years to come, while the rest of the rotation evolves. I hope upon hope, each year, for the pitchers to improve, but they seem to have reached their potential, so changes are needed.

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    Default Re: Is Karstens one of our better SP?

    Quote Originally Posted by CROSSBONES View Post
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    I have become a Jeff Karstens fan. His work is under appreciated. He could anchor the 4-5 spot for years to come, while the rest of the rotation evolves. I hope upon hope, each year, for the pitchers to improve, but they seem to have reached their potential, so changes are needed.
    So far, I've liked what I've seen from Karstens' body of work. He has pretty decent poise, and doesn't give up a lot of fly balls. To me, this is a major plus.

    He doesn't have much upside, and is best suited for a #4-#5 spot, but if the Pirates have that filled for the next handful of years, that isn't a bad thing is it? Having a consistent quality start every fourth or fifth day works for me.
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    Default Re: Is Karstens one of our better SP?

    Another negative though that I notice with Karstens is that he doesn't have much stamina.

    Lately, he seems to really peter out by the 5th or 6th inning.

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    Default Re: Is Karstens one of our better SP?

    can't resist being an ******* here...I do appreciate all of the opinions on here, and it's good to point out the positive points in yet another abyssmal season...but...

    ..talking about which Pirate starter is the best just strikes me as debating which venereal disease is the best one to have...when the bottom line is that none of them are any good.

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    Default Re: Is Karstens one of our better SP?

    that anyone believes Jeff Karstens is one of the better pitchers on this team and there's discussion surrounding it means we have problenms with the Pitching staff without even looking at anyone else's numbers. Jeff Karstens is really a mediocre pitcher who shouldn't be mentioned as a "better pitcher" on an "average" staff.

    On a positive note, Lincoln and Ohlendorf pitched a couple of real beauties in their last outings. Hope it continues as Paul Maholm has come back to down to his mediocre earth
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    Default Re: Is Karstens one of our better SP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    that anyone believes Jeff Karstens is one of the better pitchers on this team and there's discussion surrounding it means we have problenms with the Pitching staff without even looking at anyone else's numbers. Jeff Karstens is really a mediocre pitcher who shouldn't be mentioned as a "better pitcher" on an "average" staff.

    On a positive note, Lincoln and Ohlendorf pitched a couple of real beauties in their last outings. Hope it continues as Paul Maholm has come back to down to his mediocre earth
    Glad you pointed this out Kipper. The one thing that baffles me in this whole trading off players, is the bottom line that of all the players we've traded, how many are really any good. There's a fine line to walk between a guy becoming a good player and trading a player at his max value.

    I fear the Pirates missed the opportunity to get value for Zach Duke and Paul Maholm is quickly approaching that status. Both these guys are borderline #3's on their best days and while every staff needs a 3rd starter, ours can't be the highest paid pitcher on the staff.

    Trade Maholm for a close to ready shortstop that's young because Cedeno and Crosby are not the answer. Bring in a pitcher or two from outside the organization and go forward with what they're doing.

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    Default Re: Is Karstens one of our better SP?

    Quote Originally Posted by indybucfan View Post
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    Glad you pointed this out Kipper. The one thing that baffles me in this whole trading off players, is the bottom line that of all the players we've traded, how many are really any good. There's a fine line to walk between a guy becoming a good player and trading a player at his max value.

    I fear the Pirates missed the opportunity to get value for Zach Duke and Paul Maholm is quickly approaching that status. Both these guys are borderline #3's on their best days and while every staff needs a 3rd starter, ours can't be the highest paid pitcher on the staff.

    Trade Maholm for a close to ready shortstop that's young because Cedeno and Crosby are not the answer. Bring in a pitcher or two from outside the organization and go forward with what they're doing.
    Maholm is probably not going to fetch a whole lot more than a Ronny Cedeno type SS ... Basically a player with a big flaw. Sure, left handed pitching you would think has it's value, but I wonder what other GM's value Paul Maholm. When you look at his numbers season after season you see a mediocre pitcher who during the course of the year strings some performances together to make fans and media think hes better than what he is.

    That said, I wouldn't hesitate to dangle him out there and see what returns we fetch but you know that there will be people anyway you look at it feel that any return for Maholm should be more and that he should be kept etc...
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    Default Re: Is Karstens one of our better SP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    Maholm is probably not going to fetch a whole lot more than a Ronny Cedeno type SS ... Basically a player with a big flaw. Sure, left handed pitching you would think has it's value, but I wonder what other GM's value Paul Maholm. When you look at his numbers season after season you see a mediocre pitcher who during the course of the year strings some performances together to make fans and media think hes better than what he is.

    That said, I wouldn't hesitate to dangle him out there and see what returns we fetch but you know that there will be people anyway you look at it feel that any return for Maholm should be more and that he should be kept etc...
    On a team with more offense, Maholm is a decent guy to have in the rotation. But frankly, so is Duke, and I actually think Duke might fetch more. Charile Manuel liked him enough to put him on the all star team last year. Duke can hit, fields his position well and holds runners pretty well. If he makes a couple decent starts off the DL, maybe he's tradeable. Problem is, who replaces either of them in the Pirate rotation?

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