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Thread: All Star thoughts...

      
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    Default All Star thoughts...

    -Meek was the no brainer and he should actually get to make an appearance instead of the way LaRussa would leave Bay on the bench everytime.

    -Capps gets the nod, expect a Smizik-Cook piece of trash on that one.

    -And finally, how in the **** do the Brewers get 3-All Stars?
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    Default Re: All Star thoughts...

    1. I'm actually not sure what I think about that Meek pick. I think people definitely have an argument when they point to the .235 BABIP. If his ERA is around 2 or so I don't think they consider taking him. Reliever ERA is a really fluky thing a lot of the time. There's not a ton of difference between Evan Meek and say, Mike Adams. I really think McCutchen should have made that team.

    2. Capps being the only Nationals player is ridiculous. He leads the league in saves, but the secondary numbers are about what they've always been. He's had this same season in the past. Josh Willingham is having a great season, as is Ryan Zimmerman. Adam Dunn, too, but I don't see him cracking the 1B group.

    3. Ryan Braun is actually having a down year, but he got voted in by the fans. I don't know how anyone could like that dude, but for some reason they do. Corey Hart and Yovani Gallardo are absolutely deserving.

    Chris Young and Michael Bourn shouldn't be on the team over McCutchen, but there's no way they were going to take a pitcher from the Diamondbacks, and they were probably scared off by Oswalt's loss total, though he's actually pitched extremely well.

    There's no way Omar Infante should be on the team. A ridiculous choice really. I can't make any sense of it.

    Charlie Manuel deciding to take Ryan Howard over Joey Votto is the reason they should stop having the manager pick the reserves. Votto is a superior player in every way. NL 1B by WAR:

    1st Joey Votto, 3.6
    2nd Albert Pujols, 3.1
    3rd Adrian Gonazlez, 3.1
    4th Aubrey Huff, 2.6
    5th Adam Dunn, 2.3
    6th Gaby Sanchez, 2.3
    7th Prince Fielder, 2.1
    8th Ryan Howard, 1.3

    Francisco Liriano not making the AL roster is also insane.

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    Default Re: All Star thoughts...

    Speaking of all-stars... you mean the all-star team didn't take Nyjer Morgan from the Nationals? I though he was supposed to be the ****

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    Default Re: All Star thoughts...

    The All-Star game is pointless.
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    Default Re: All Star thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBen2112 View Post
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    The All-Star game is pointless.
    Especially if ANYONE thought that Strasburg deserved to be there!!

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    Default Re: All Star thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBen2112 View Post
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    The All-Star game is pointless.
    As is the voting and that goes for any All-Star game in any sport. Complete joke.

    I completely agree with everything that Jnn said.
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    Default Re: All Star thoughts...

    Wait..

    No Morgan?

    No McClouth????

    I thought the Pirates were ****ed for good when they traded these two perennial All-Stars?
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    Default Re: All Star thoughts...

    I like Evan Meek a lot, I'm sure I have a bunch of posts on this board where I say very positive thins about him, but looking at some numbers I'm starting to think he was a pretty terrible selection. I already mentioned the .235 BABIP being fluky and unsustainable, but there are some other things as well.

    Dejan has been pushing this idea that Meek has been used in really high leverage situations and excelled despite not being the closer. Numbers on the average leverage for a reliever aren't that hard to find. Meek's average leverage index is 1.18. Not particularly high, but about what you'd expect from any setup guy, and good for (a distant) second on the team. The problem is that it looks like there is some merit to the claims that most of his impressive work has come in the lowest pressure situations.

    Meek has appeared in 19 games where his leverage index was above average (>1.0). In those 19 games he was scored upon 6 times and allowed an inherited runner to score in 2 others. Several of the runs were unearned, but you still have to throw some of that on the pitcher (I remember multiple times where Oliver Perez would have something like 6 runs, 0 earned in an inning. He was incredible at that kind of thing.) WPA (win probability added) has Meek trailing 3 Pirates relievers in his contribution to actually winning games this year, Joel Hanrahan, Octavio Dotel, and Brendan Donnelly (?!?!?).

    Fangraphs has 2 reliever stats called Shudowns and Meltdowns that credit a player each time he significantly impacts the team's win probability in a positive or negative direction. Meek has 10 shutdowns, good for third on the team, and leads the team with 7 meltdowns. Octavio Dotel has 17 shutdowns to 5 meltdowns, Joel Hanrahan has 11 shutdowns to 3 meltdowns, and Brendan Donnelly actually has 6 shutdowns against only 1 meltdown. Meek has actually done almost all of his worst work in his most important situations.

    Hanrahan, Dotel, and Donnelly all have inflated ERAs from terrible performances in some of those blowout games. Meek hasn't had one of those appearances this year. When games have truly been on the line he hasn't been nearly as reliable.

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    Default Re: All Star thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by jnn123 View Post
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    I like Evan Meek a lot, I'm sure I have a bunch of posts on this board where I say very positive thins about him, but looking at some numbers I'm starting to think he was a pretty terrible selection. I already mentioned the .235 BABIP being fluky and unsustainable, but there are some other things as well.

    Dejan has been pushing this idea that Meek has been used in really high leverage situations and excelled despite not being the closer. Numbers on the average leverage for a reliever aren't that hard to find. Meek's average leverage index is 1.18. Not particularly high, but about what you'd expect from any setup guy, and good for (a distant) second on the team. The problem is that it looks like there is some merit to the claims that most of his impressive work has come in the lowest pressure situations.

    Meek has appeared in 19 games where his leverage index was above average (>1.0). In those 19 games he was scored upon 6 times and allowed an inherited runner to score in 2 others. Several of the runs were unearned, but you still have to throw some of that on the pitcher (I remember multiple times where Oliver Perez would have something like 6 runs, 0 earned in an inning. He was incredible at that kind of thing.) WPA (win probability added) has Meek trailing 3 Pirates relievers in his contribution to actually winning games this year, Joel Hanrahan, Octavio Dotel, and Brendan Donnelly (?!?!?).

    Fangraphs has 2 reliever stats called Shudowns and Meltdowns that credit a player each time he significantly impacts the team's win probability in a positive or negative direction. Meek has 10 shutdowns, good for third on the team, and leads the team with 7 meltdowns. Octavio Dotel has 17 shutdowns to 5 meltdowns, Joel Hanrahan has 11 shutdowns to 3 meltdowns, and Brendan Donnelly actually has 6 shutdowns against only 1 meltdown. Meek has actually done almost all of his worst work in his most important situations.

    Hanrahan, Dotel, and Donnelly all have inflated ERAs from terrible performances in some of those blowout games. Meek hasn't had one of those appearances this year. When games have truly been on the line he hasn't been nearly as reliable.
    I would agree he's not an all-star if by all-star we mean one of the truly best players in the league.

    But the guy has pitched 47+ innings and is holding batters under .200 BAA. Furthermore, Meek does have good stuff. I'd just like to see him finish the season not injured and be ready to improve and grow more as a pitcher.
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    Default Re: All Star thoughts...

    From DK's Q&A.

    jal: Dejan: If Dotel gets traded who has the inside track on closing, Meek or Hanrahan?

    Dejan Kovacevic: Hello to everyone on this semi-holiday the day after a real one. Odd that the Pirates aren't playing, actually.

    Meek would have the upper hand, as he has been openly discussed and cited as a closer-in-waiting. But Hanrahan has been really good, too, and the Pirates obviously are fortunate in at least this one facet of the team. Enough so that one might wonder why such things always have to be blown up. Someday, an asset to the Pirates will be treated as exactly that, an asset to the Pirates.

    Curt: I'm guessing you think Evan Meek has been the Pirates' best pitcher this year and that starting pitching is more important than middle relief. So, why not make Meek a starter?

    Dejan Kovacevic: Funny that you ask. That is the subject of a rather long answer in tomorrow's Q&A on the PBC Blog. Let me know what you think in the comments section, Curt.

    jal: Dejan--Are you hearing any concern about Meek being overused. He has thrown 47 innings while Hanrahan is at 34, Dotel 33, Lopez 30, Carrasco 41. Meek has thrown more innings than Morton did in his 10 starts.

    Dejan Kovacevic: I am not hearing that concern, but perhaps we all should be. Meek leads the team in appearances and in relief innings, and I also have seen him get up a couple of times -- meaning beginning to warm up in the bullpen without actually pitching -- and those numbers, too, need to be examined. (Luis Dorante and Ray Searage do track the latter.)

    Meek ended up getting shut down in 2009 because of the oblique strain, and the Pirates need to be extra-cautious, especially in the very glaring context that 2011 and beyond are going to mean a lot more than 2010.


    Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10186...#ixzz0suX0cdmx
    Meek has been one of real bright spots this year. I think the comments about the high workload have some merit. Certainly don't want to burn him out and not be available in the next couple of seasons which are deemed to be more meaningful. But as far as his AS selection, I think he is most deserving of it.

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    Default Re: All Star thoughts...

    I'm not really sure why I even bother to think about these things, but one of the dumbest parts of the All Star selection process is the way they do the player voting. Basically they have all of the players vote for their own All Star team. If the guy who wins the vote at a position is already on the team then they go to the guy who came in second place. All that means is that in cases where someone should be a near unanimous selection they reward the players who were too dumb to vote for the obvious pick. They should just have them vote after the starters are named.

    Carrying 2 catchers on a 34 man roster is also kind of weird. Back in the old days when they'd do 25 man rosters with 10 pitchers and 15 hitters just about every team carried 3 catchers.

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    Default Re: All Star thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pie Traynor View Post
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    Wait..

    No Morgan?

    No McClouth????

    I thought the Pirates were ****ed for good when they traded these two perennial All-Stars?
    Speaking of Nyjer... got this blurb on MLBTRADERUMORS.com

    Some members of the Nationals organization wouldn't mind trading Nyjer Morgan to open up center field for Roger Bernadina.

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    Default Re: All Star thoughts...

    Curt: I'm guessing you think Evan Meek has been the Pirates' best pitcher this year and that starting pitching is more important than middle relief. So, why not make Meek a starter?
    I think Curt drinks bong water and drools all over himself. what a stupid question and it's that DK would even answer it.
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    Default Re: All Star thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    I think Curt drinks bong water and drools all over himself. what a stupid question and it's that DK would even answer it.
    that's like saying McCutchen is our best player, so let's move him to shortstop!

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    Default Re: All Star thoughts...

    I think the case has been made. Meek has been good, not outrageously great... not All-Star great... but pretty darn good.

    It's not rocket science, our All-Star is McCutchen and he should have gone if all things were right... re: the f-ed up All-Star process.

    Ultimately, it's the rest of baseball's fans loss, not being able to see him play.

    Congrats to Meek... but WTH do they have middle relievers on an All-Star squad for?

    It would be a silly argument were it not for the f-ed up fact that the game means something now.

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