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Thread: Ten Worst Pirate Moves in the last 10 years

      
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    Default Ten Worst Pirate Moves in the last 10 years

    I found this the other day and found it interesting so I thought I would share...the bold parts are from the actual link...the subnotes are my own:

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4...0-years#page/1

    10. Dealing Chris Young to San Diego for Matt Herges
    --Subnote: You could also include here the DFA of Matt Herges...after a great spring training. Herges went on to prove quite valuable to other teams leaving the Pirates with nothing.

    9. Signing of Jeromy Burnitz
    --Subnote: I've mentioned it before and especially recently in a thread we have going on here. Its not about signing a free agent...its about signing the correct free agent. Jeromy Burnitz was an epic waste of money...

    8. Drafting Daniel Moskos instead of Matt Wieters
    --Subnote: It is interesting from this point forward in this list to consider where the Pirates would be as an organization right NOW...if only a couple of things transpired differently for us. The drafting (or lackthereof) of Wieters has been debated to death...but just imagine where we could be if only a COUPLE more of these things DIDNT happen

    7. The Raul Mondesi Situation
    --Subnote: I disagree with this. I mean really...this situation sucked but you could just as easily include other terrible moves (even the Operation Shutdown fiasco).

    6. Acquiring Benito Santiago for Leo Nunez
    --Subnote: Silent but deadly trade. I completely agree with this one. Leo Nunez is STILL only 26 years of age...and has already had a successful career. This year he has 24 saves and a 2.74 ERA. Trading a 20-21 year old player with even just some upside for a 40 year old decrepit player is a terrible idea all the way around

    5. Drafting John Van Benschoten and Bryan Bullington
    --Subnote: What else is there to say...drafting a 3-4th starter in round one...and KNOWING you're doing that...seriously? Drafting a power hitter and turning him into a pitcher? Only in Pittsburgh.......

    4. Turning down the Kip Wells-Ryan Howard trade
    --Subnote: Consider this and the Wieters one...if these were the ONLY two things different right now with our team...where could we be? A destructive bat...a good-going on-great catcher....think of where the Pirates could actually be (yes...we'd still lack any real pitching...what's new about that).

    3. The Matt Morris Trade
    --Subnote: This is bad for PR but it really is a non-issue type of trade...this should be much lower in the list

    2. The Jason Schmidt Trade
    --Subnote: This indeed was a terrible trade...wouldn't help us now either way, but definitely a sore spot for the organization...and really Schmidt is a guy who is little mentioned in terms of someone we've had and who went on to have good/great success.

    1. The Pirates GIVE AWAY of Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton
    --Subnote: Sigh. Disaster. Could you imagine being the GM of another team when DL called?...Think of the excitement, joy, and even almost deviant feeling you'd get...I mean the excitement of acquiring a great player...the joy of what that player could bring to your team...and the deviant feeling of someone who is absolutely STEALING from another team. How terrible was DL!
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    Default Re: Ten Worst Pirate Moves in the last 10 years

    The Jason Schmidt trade doesn't deserve to be #2 IMO. That's revionist type of stuff there. Schmidt was 28 years old when he was traded and never had an ERA under 4.00 in any of the 4.5 FULL seasons he pitched for us. His WHIP's averaged out in the seasons he pitched full to be around 1.50 and the lowest WHIP he ever had was 1.39

    If we had a pitcher at the age of 28 on the staff putting up a 1.76 WHIP and 5.40 ERA we'd be saying "demote him" or "trade him for a bag of balls".

    The trade sucks in that Schmidt turned his career around instantly the day he was traded and became the type of pitcher that this organization can't seem to inherit in a trade or develop in their system. The problem with Schmidt may have been that he was a late bloomer or most likely that he was receiving **** poor coaching and went to the Giants and got fixed.
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    Default Re: Ten Worst Pirate Moves in the last 10 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    The Jason Schmidt trade doesn't deserve to be #2 IMO. That's revionist type of stuff there. Schmidt was 28 years old when he was traded and never had an ERA under 4.00 in any of the 4.5 FULL seasons he pitched for us. His WHIP's averaged out in the seasons he pitched full to be around 1.50 and the lowest WHIP he ever had was 1.39

    If we had a pitcher at the age of 28 on the staff putting up a 1.76 WHIP and 5.40 ERA we'd be saying "demote him" or "trade him for a bag of balls".

    The trade sucks in that Schmidt turned his career around instantly the day he was traded and became the type of pitcher that this organization can't seem to inherit in a trade or develop in their system. [HIGH-LIGHT]The problem with Schmidt may have been that he was a late bloomer or most likely that he was receiving **** poor coaching and went to the Giants and got fixed.[/HIGH-LIGHT]
    That part gets my vote LOL.
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    Default Re: Ten Worst Pirate Moves in the last 10 years

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBen2112 View Post
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    That part gets my vote LOL.
    Mine too but it still doesn't make the trade at the time a bad decision. His numbers suggested a guy that wasn't very good and in his last half season here he was posting some of the worst numbers of his career. Most GM's don't keep a guy that produces like Jason Schmidt was for the Pirates.

    Hell it's tough to really argue the trade results terribly too consuidering what Jason Schmidt was. Armondo Rios and Ryan Vogelsong I think were the return. Rios always sucked but at the time Vogelsong had some positive upside and potential as a 22-23 year old minor league pitcher. His "stuff" just never materialized at the MLB level
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    Default Re: Ten Worst Pirate Moves in the last 10 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    The Jason Schmidt trade doesn't deserve to be #2 IMO. That's revionist type of stuff there. Schmidt was 28 years old when he was traded and never had an ERA under 4.00 in any of the 4.5 FULL seasons he pitched for us. His WHIP's averaged out in the seasons he pitched full to be around 1.50 and the lowest WHIP he ever had was 1.39

    If we had a pitcher at the age of 28 on the staff putting up a 1.76 WHIP and 5.40 ERA we'd be saying "demote him" or "trade him for a bag of balls".

    The trade sucks in that Schmidt turned his career around instantly the day he was traded and became the type of pitcher that this organization can't seem to inherit in a trade or develop in their system. The problem with Schmidt may have been that he was a late bloomer or most likely that he was receiving **** poor coaching and went to the Giants and got fixed.
    If I remember correctly ....Schmidt wanted out of Pittsburgh really bad.

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    Default Re: Ten Worst Pirate Moves in the last 10 years

    Quote Originally Posted by PittFaninVa View Post
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    If I remember correctly ....Schmidt wanted out of Pittsburgh really bad.
    Wouldn't you?
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    Default Re: Ten Worst Pirate Moves in the last 10 years

    The Aramis Ramirez debacle is 100% on Kevin McClatchey not DL. DL made his share of bad moves and certainly on the surface that one tops the list . The debt ratio of the team forced them to make a move. They were ready to deal Kris Benson to unload his salary until he came up lame. Next up was Ramirez so he was gone. MLB and Selig mandated they cut the debt so the move was made. What a horrible feeling that was when the trade was announced !

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    Default Re: Ten Worst Pirate Moves in the last 10 years

    Quote Originally Posted by PittFaninVa View Post
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    If I remember correctly ....Schmidt wanted out of Pittsburgh really bad.
    Seems to be a common theme
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    Default Re: Ten Worst Pirate Moves in the last 10 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaker100 View Post
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    The Aramis Ramirez debacle is 100% on Kevin McClatchey not DL. DL made his share of bad moves and certainly on the surface that one tops the list . The debt ratio of the team forced them to make a move. They were ready to deal Kris Benson to unload his salary until he came up lame. Next up was Ramirez so he was gone. MLB and Selig mandated they cut the debt so the move was made. What a horrible feeling that was when the trade was announced !
    What was left on Arams contract? 2 years and $10 or $15 million? I agree that the trading of Aramis was on Kevin Mcclatchy. That was his decision but it was Dave Lttlefield's decision to take : Jose Hernandez, Matt Bruback and bobby Hill. I'd have to look it up since I'm relying on memory but I swear we even sent the Cubs money and Kenny Lofton in that deal. We should've gotten a far better return than those 3 piles of dung for what we sent out
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    Default Re: Ten Worst Pirate Moves in the last 10 years

    I also seem to recall at the time Vogelsong getting hurt shortly after coming over. Think he was in Altoona at the time and blew out his arm - imagine! Armando Rios was actually a pretty decent fourth OF then and was projected to start for us - until he blew out his knee the first week we got him. How in the hell can you plan for that? BTW, we also gave up John VanderWal in that deal as well.

    My bottom 10 moves (in no particular order):

    1. The Ramirez deal.

    2. Drafting Bullington #1 overall.

    3. Chris Young for Matt Herges

    4. Leo Nunez for Santiago

    5. Jose Bautista for Robinzon Diaz

    6. Salomon Torres for two stiffs

    7. Rajai Davis for Matt Morris

    8. Drafting Moskos #4 overall.

    9. Releasing Matt Capps.

    10. Signing Pat Meares to a 3-year deal with a crippling hand injury.

    The Burnitz and Randa signings were just wastes. They did more to block guys like Nate McLouth and Freddy Sanchez at the time. Capps was a commodity that should've been kept this year and flipped. Still can't understand the logic behind non-tendering the guy. Bautista always showed promise and some power, plus he played multiple positions. Another head-scratcher.

    Anyone notice McLouth got sent to AAA today? Wow, what a fall.

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    Default Re: Ten Worst Pirate Moves in the last 10 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Van Slyke View Post
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    I also seem to recall at the time Vogelsong getting hurt shortly after coming over. Think he was in Altoona at the time and blew out his arm - imagine! Armando Rios was actually a pretty decent fourth OF then and was projected to start for us - until he blew out his knee the first week we got him. How in the hell can you plan for that? BTW, we also gave up John VanderWal in that deal as well.

    My bottom 10 moves (in no particular order):

    1. The Ramirez deal.

    2. Drafting Bullington #1 overall.

    3. Chris Young for Matt Herges

    4. Leo Nunez for Santiago

    5. Jose Bautista for Robinzon Diaz

    6. Salomon Torres for two stiffs

    7. Rajai Davis for Matt Morris

    8. Drafting Moskos #4 overall.

    9. Releasing Matt Capps.

    10. Signing Pat Meares to a 3-year deal with a crippling hand injury.

    The Burnitz and Randa signings were just wastes. They did more to block guys like Nate McLouth and Freddy Sanchez at the time. Capps was a commodity that should've been kept this year and flipped. Still can't understand the logic behind non-tendering the guy. Bautista always showed promise and some power, plus he played multiple positions. Another head-scratcher.

    [HIGH-LIGHT]Anyone notice McLouth got sent to AAA today? Wow, what a fall[/HIGH-LIGHT].
    I saw that too...very interesting indeed...if only Hernandez or Morton would work out we actually could get the better of that deal.

    PS: Locke (the third member of the McLouth trade) is looking pretty good right now in Altoona.
    Last edited by BigBen2112; Jul-28-2010 at 12:04 AM.
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    Default Re: Ten Worst Pirate Moves in the last 10 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    Mine too but it still doesn't make the trade at the time a bad decision. His numbers suggested a guy that wasn't very good and in his last half season here he was posting some of the worst numbers of his career. Most GM's don't keep a guy that produces like Jason Schmidt was for the Pirates.

    Hell it's tough to really argue the trade results terribly too consuidering what Jason Schmidt was. Armondo Rios and Ryan Vogelsong I think were the return. Rios always sucked but [HIGH-LIGHT]at the time Vogelsong had some positive upside and potential as a 22-23 year old minor league pitcher. His "stuff" just never materialized at the MLB level[/HIGH-LIGHT]
    I believe that comes down to what you mentioned earlier about poor coaching. I think Vogelsong is just one name of a handful of pitchers who could have been very talented but for Spin Williams. (Dave Williams is another one off the top of my head, that I think the Bucs ruined.)

    But I agree that the trade doesn't belong at #2. I was more upset with giving up John Vanderwal than I was losing Schmidt. Vanderwal was 35 years old anyway.

    It's not so much the drafting of John Van Benschoten that I thought was so bad, it was insisting he would be a pitcher that was a mistake. He might have been a great OF for us.

    One trade that I really didn't like was trading Jeff Keppinger (and Kris Benson) for Ty Wigginton and Jose Bautista who should have been protected from a rule 5 draft to at the beginning of the season. But I'm even over that one now, as Keppinger is 30 now, and most likely wouldn't be part of the current (and for real) rebuilding plan anyway.

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    Default Re: Ten Worst Pirate Moves in the last 10 years

    How can Derek Bell not make the list?

    He made Joggin' George Hendricks look like Charlie Hustle.

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    Default Re: Ten Worst Pirate Moves in the last 10 years

    I remember watching that Cubs-Marlins playoff series with a friend and declaring the Cubs would lose because they half their line up was Pirate players I had watched blow games in the first half of the season.

    Of course they lost thanks to a lot of Cubs choking, and not because Steve Bartman tried to grab that foul ball.
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    Default Re: Ten Worst Pirate Moves in the last 10 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Van Slyke View Post
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    I also seem to recall at the time Vogelsong getting hurt shortly after coming over. Think he was in Altoona at the time and blew out his arm - imagine! Armando Rios was actually a pretty decent fourth OF then and was projected to start for us - until he blew out his knee the first week we got him. How in the hell can you plan for that? BTW, we also gave up John VanderWal in that deal as well.

    My bottom 10 moves (in no particular order):

    1. The Ramirez deal.

    2. Drafting Bullington #1 overall.

    3. Chris Young for Matt Herges

    4. Leo Nunez for Santiago

    5. Jose Bautista for Robinzon Diaz

    6. Salomon Torres for two stiffs

    7. Rajai Davis for Matt Morris

    8. Drafting Moskos #4 overall.

    9. Releasing Matt Capps.

    10. Signing Pat Meares to a 3-year deal with a crippling hand injury.

    The Burnitz and Randa signings were just wastes. They did more to block guys like Nate McLouth and Freddy Sanchez at the time. Capps was a commodity that should've been kept this year and flipped. Still can't understand the logic behind non-tendering the guy. Bautista always showed promise and some power, plus he played multiple positions. Another head-scratcher.

    Anyone notice McLouth got sent to AAA today? Wow, what a fall.
    Bautista couldn't and still can't hit worth a ****. Difference is that for the first time in his career at the age of 29 he's hitting the ball over the fence like he's on steroids. I mean look at his stats : http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...autijo02.shtml

    What is the LONE thing that's changed? It's not that annual ****ty batting average between .230 and .255. He suddenly has doubled his career high for single season homers that he accomplished 5 years ago. He only hit 13 homers last season.

    It wasn't a bad trade or a head scratcher. Jose Bautista was given chances as a starter for the Pirates and returned that favor by hitting for a terrible average with only mid teens power. Let's also not forget his Defense. He was crappy Defensively with us as well.

    I'd be testing his *** for roids or HGH or some **** to be honest.
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