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Thread: Gammons: There is hope in the heartland

      
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    Default Gammons: There is hope in the heartland

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...tnerId=rss_pit


    Sure, some folks in Pittsburgh remember how good the Pirates were in the '70s, when they won two World Series, made the playoffs six times and with Willie Stargell and Dave Parker had one of the most colorful teams of its era. But you'd probably have to be a grad student to remember when the Pirates last had a winning team. It goes back to 1992, Barry Bonds' last season in Pittsburgh, the last year of a three-year run in which Jim Leyland's teams averaged 96 wins but saw the era end with a heartbreaking NLCS loss to the Braves.


    As should the Pirates. They are already a far different team than what they were at the beginning of last season. Andrew McCutchen has already won over Pirates fans. Now they have Pedro Alvarez at third, Jose Tabata in the outfield, Neil Walker at second. McDonald had a dazzling debut Thursday. They have to allow Brad Lincoln to develop, hope right-hander Bryan Morris makes it sometime next season, and try to patch until their best arms like Rudy Owens, Zach Von Rosenberg, Tim Alderson, Jeff Locke and Quinton Miller develop and identify themselves as what they can be in the Major Leagues.



    By signing a number of over-slot power arms last season, this June they could think about talent rather than signability and rapid big league ascension and took what may have been two of the three best high school arms in Jameson Taillon and Stetson Allie; now they have to get them signed in the next 10 days.

    Adding Snyder gives them a pitcher-oriented catcher who buys time for 2009 No. 1 pick Tony Sanchez, a surefire Major League catcher whose jaw was shattered by a pitch six weeks ago in the Florida State League.

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    Default Re: Gammons: There is hope in the heartland

    It's a pretty solid article and really all of the GM's say pretty much the same things/similar things. Most of them are things we've been saying for a while ourselves... The Pirates organization didn't turn to crap over the period of 2-3 years, it took many years for it to occur. It took many years worth of poor drafting, trades, planning etc... to sink the Pirates ship. Fans of course lost patience and some lost it years ago. The truth is, it was never going to take 2-3 years to rebuild the ship. Too much was wrong. I think it was NH in the article that mentioned building a strong foundation and he couldn't be any more right.

    Maybe we reach .500 by now had our minor leagues not be pretty much depleted by years of neglect and ignorance during the McCLatchy/Littlefield years . Not needing to trade any of the value we had for quantity just so that our minor leagues could start resembling some of even the crappiest minor league systems (prospects wise) in MLB. That's how bad this organization was during those Mc****tlefield years.

    I've been mentioning in recent days that we some top end pitching. Our best pitchers in the organization are a few years or mroe away. Mc****tlefield left this organization with little pitching depth but now because a foundation was built through 2 strong drafts to replinish the talent and we made the trades for quanitity we're at a position where a lot of teams are in which we could consider moving some prospects for a pitcher or if need be.

    Some have said that we could've rebuilt the system and also improved and won at an MLB level but nobody has every mentioned how. the best I've ever seen is the Bob Smizik way of keeping the 2008 team together which would be about disastrous right now. There was no quick fix. We couldn't continue to perform the Mc****tlefield band-aid on the organization. We had to take the big hit at the MLB to do it right which was rebuild the system and build a strong foundation. Now, despite a terrible record, I think that there's a glimmer of optimism amongst fans seeing McCutchen, Walker, Tabata, Alvarez playing and this is really probably the very beginning of the "rebuild results". The very top of the surface we're seeing now
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    Default Re: Gammons: There is hope in the heartland

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    It's a pretty solid article and really all of the GM's say pretty much the same things/similar things. Most of them are things we've been saying for a while ourselves... The Pirates organization didn't turn to crap over the period of 2-3 years, it took many years for it to occur. It took many years worth of poor drafting, trades, planning etc... to sink the Pirates ship. Fans of course lost patience and some lost it years ago. The truth is, it was never going to take 2-3 years to rebuild the ship. Too much was wrong. I think it was NH in the article that mentioned building a strong foundation and he couldn't be any more right.

    Maybe we reach .500 by now had our minor leagues not be pretty much depleted by years of neglect and ignorance during the McCLatchy/Littlefield years . Not needing to trade any of the value we had for quantity just so that our minor leagues could start resembling some of even the crappiest minor league systems (prospects wise) in MLB. That's how bad this organization was during those Mc****tlefield years.

    I've been mentioning in recent days that we some top end pitching. Our best pitchers in the organization are a few years or mroe away. Mc****tlefield left this organization with little pitching depth but now because a foundation was built through 2 strong drafts to replinish the talent and we made the trades for quanitity we're at a position where a lot of teams are in which we could consider moving some prospects for a pitcher or if need be.

    Some have said that we could've rebuilt the system and also improved and won at an MLB level but nobody has every mentioned how. the best I've ever seen is the Bob Smizik way of keeping the 2008 team together which would be about disastrous right now. There was no quick fix. We couldn't continue to perform the Mc****tlefield band-aid on the organization. We had to take the big hit at the MLB to do it right which was rebuild the system and build a strong foundation. Now, despite a terrible record, I think that there's a glimmer of optimism amongst fans seeing McCutchen, Walker, Tabata, Alvarez playing and this is really probably the very beginning of the "rebuild results". The very top of the surface we're seeing now
    It dates all the way back to the trib days...I said it then and I will maintain it now the only way to rebuild is to go all out. I said that I would support the front office if and only if they decided to go that route. If they went half-assed about it failure was essentially guaranteed. The front office might not have always made the right move or the best move, but they have made THEIR moves...and they have done that with ONE, SOLITARY vision in mind...that is a complete rebuild. That is the only way this team could ever have a chance. Its REBUILD and continue BUILDING so that you dont have to completely rebuild for a long time.
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    Default Re: Gammons: There is hope in the heartland

    I remember you guys saying those types of things. I wanted to add players to what would have become an expensive .500 team. I have hope now, that I am watching a developing team, that achieves competence and maybe takes a division, and beyond of course!

    I watched Kyle McPherson pitch the other night and a good fireballing reliever at the WV Power game. I also watched Jarek Cunningham and some other nice looking players, while there.

    Being that good at that level does not equate to becoming and everyday mlb'er, but it looks good to us fans.

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    Default Re: Gammons: There is hope in the heartland

    it's being said that Tampa may shop Garza in the offseason. My question would be, what would it take prospect wise to land Garza? If they are talking Alvarez or McCutchen or someone like that, I wouldn't be interested. But is the depth there in the low minors to swing a deal? How many years till he's eligible for free agency?

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    Default Re: Gammons: There is hope in the heartland

    Quote Originally Posted by indybucfan View Post
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    it's being said that Tampa may shop Garza in the offseason. My question would be, what would it take prospect wise to land Garza? If they are talking Alvarez or McCutchen or someone like that, I wouldn't be interested. But is the depth there in the low minors to swing a deal? How many years till he's eligible for free agency?
    I would be more interested in Zack Greinke. It would take more than we have though I am afraid. The package would likely have to include Morris, Owens, and others.
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    Default Re: Gammons: There is hope in the heartland

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBen2112 View Post
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    I would be more interested in Zack Greinke. It would take more than we have though I am afraid. The package would likely have to include Morris, Owens, and others.
    I'm sure it would. The price for Greinke would be considerably higher and the problem we will have is our limited resources from AA up.

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    Default Re: Gammons: There is hope in the heartland

    Quote Originally Posted by indybucfan View Post
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    I'm sure it would. The price for Greinke would be considerably higher and the problem we will have is our limited resources from AA up.
    The Pirates would probably have to trade: Locke+Owens+Marte/Grossman...I would consider trading Tabata instead of Marte...that still is a decent amount to give up and it would likely require more. However, could you imagine Greinke in the rotation?
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    Default Re: Gammons: There is hope in the heartland

    And about Garza with it likely that the Rays will lose Crawford they may be willing to take Jose Tabata in exchange. Not that I am really all that eager to give up Tabata...it just might be worth it to get a legit top-end starter.
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    Default Re: Gammons: There is hope in the heartland

    You guys almost give me hope again. Maybe I have been spending too much time on the Smizik board.

    Btw, saw this lead on the USA Today article on the Rangers' sale:
    Pittsburgh sports attorney Chuck Greenberg's ownership group might have spent nearly $60 million more than they anticipated in their $593 million bid for the Texas Rangers, but the financial burden doesn't mean the team will turn into the Pittsburgh Pirates.
    I am so tired of reading crap like that!

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    Default Re: Gammons: There is hope in the heartland

    Pedro Just CRUSHED a Line Drive 3 Run Homer to tie it up in the 6th

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    Default Re: Gammons: There is hope in the heartland

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilpens View Post
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    Pedro Just CRUSHED a Line Drive 3 Run Homer to tie it up in the 6th
    And Park better be on a short leash

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