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  1. #1
    CROSSBONES's Avatar
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    Default Classic Pirates

    This team should be winning more, now! When the pitchers are good, the hitting sucks, and when the hitters are successful, the pitching caves in.

    Katrstens deserves a few wins, and for that matter, the Dorf does too!

    Why is Garrett Jones sitting?

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    Default Re: Classic Pirates

    Quote Originally Posted by CROSSBONES View Post
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    This team should be winning more, now! When the pitchers are good, the hitting sucks, and when the hitters are successful, the pitching caves in.

    Katrstens deserves a few wins, and for that matter, the Dorf does too!

    Why is Garrett Jones sitting?
    He's sitting to get a break. He's started all but one game this year.

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    Default Re: Classic Pirates

    In the "notebook" column CF said Garrett has taken a bunch of foul balls off his shin and was not 100%.


    http://www.postgazette.com/pg/10223/1079111-63.stm

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    Default Re: Classic Pirates

    The most frustrating example of this are the 2006 and 2007 seasons.

    In '06 the Pitching was decent and the Bucs lost a lot of games 2-1, 2-0, 2-1.

    Then in '07 Bay and Nady killed it before the were dealt. They Bucs had 60 home runs between Bay Nady and LaRoche, but the pitching stunk.

    It always killed me that if you could combine the '06 pitching staff with the '07 offense they might have at least broken the streak.

    At least that's how I remember it.
    I'm sure some of you stat geeks will come in here and blow my theory away.
    "Nice catch, Hayes. Don't ever ****in' do it again." -Lou Brown

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    Kipper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Classic Pirates

    Quote Originally Posted by CROSSBONES View Post
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    [HIGH-LIGHT]This team should be winning more, now! When the pitchers are good, the hitting sucks, and when the hitters are successful, the pitching caves in.[/HIGH-LIGHT]

    Katrstens deserves a few wins, and for that matter, the Dorf does too!

    Why is Garrett Jones sitting?
    thats been the Pirates issue for well... most of this losing streak. Inconsistency. You banging your head is about dead on too. It's frustrating because you hate to see one aspect that does well goto waste
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    Default Re: Classic Pirates

    Quote Originally Posted by Waiting for LaRoche View Post
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    The most frustrating example of this are the 2006 and 2007 seasons.

    In '06 the Pitching was decent and the Bucs lost a lot of games 2-1, 2-0, 2-1.

    Then in '07 Bay and Nady killed it before the were dealt. They Bucs had 60 home runs between Bay Nady and LaRoche, but the pitching stunk.

    It always killed me that if you could combine the '06 pitching staff with the '07 offense they might have at least broken the streak.

    At least that's how I remember it.
    I'm sure some of you stat geeks will come in here and blow my theory away.
    Wrong years... at least with the Bay/Nady years. That was 2008. the pitching on the other hand... tough to really find a good pitching season where the Pirates offense was letting down strong pitching.

    2006 - Starters ERA ranked 21st
    2007 - Starters ERA ranked 24th

    The Pirates have had some ****ty pitching and that's really one of the main roots for the Pirates 17-18 year plague of sub.500 ball. You simply cannot win without good pitching. the 2008 Pirates are proof of that. 4th most runs in MLB at one points and still below .500. Pitching sucked as it usually does.

    2005 - Starters ERA ranked 25th
    2004 - Starters ERA ranked 15th
    2003 - Starters ERA ranked 17th
    2002 - Starters ERA ranked 17th
    2001 - Starters ERA ranked 27th
    2000 - Starters ERA ranked 17th
    1999 - Starters ERA ranked 9th (That's a staff that included Schmidt, Benson, Cordova, Ritchie.
    1998 - Starters ERA ranked 8th (That's a staff that included Schmidt, Loaiza, Lieber, Cordova)
    1997 - Starters ERA ranked 11th
    1996 - Starters ERA ranked 11th
    1995 - Starters ERA ranked 19th
    1994 - Starters ERA ranked 12th
    1993 - Starters ERA ranked 24th

    So there was about 4 seasons there at the end of the 90's during the Bonifay years where we got good Starting Pitching Results. Looking at that 1999 team you wonder why they weren't better. We had 4 players with 20 Homers or more...

    Giles - 39
    Spraque - 22
    Young - 26
    Martin - 24

    4 guys hitting over .270, 2 guys with 100+ rbi seasons yet... they couldn't score any runs (ranked 22nd)

    In any event, those were just numbers for the Starting Pitchers. Let's look at the Bullpen results through the years

    2007 - BP ERA ranked 26th
    2006 - BP ERA ranked 10th
    2005 - BP ERA ranked 16th
    2004 - BP ERA ranked 6th
    2003 - BP ERA ranked 27th
    2002 - BP ERA ranked 12th
    2001 - BP ERA ranked 24th
    2000 - BP ERA ranked 21st
    1999 - BP ERA ranked 8th
    1998 - BP ERA ranked 3rd
    1997 - BP ERA ranked 16th
    1996 - BP ERA ranked 19th
    1995 - BP ERA ranked 19th
    1994 - BP ERA ranked 26th
    1993 - BP ERA ranked 26th

    All in all those 1998 and 1999 Pitching staffs were pretty good when stacked up against the rest of the league in statistical results. It's a shame that for past 17+ years we have only that small sampling of good pitching to show
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    Default Re: Classic Pirates

    I knew I had it wrong.

    To be honest 2001-2008 are a blur to me.
    Not just when it comes to Pirates baseball, but life in general.
    I knew what day it was by which drink special I was heading to.
    I think I can count on one hand the number of games I saw at PNC Park sober.
    Every game started at Hi-Tops and ended at Hi-Tops.
    God, I hated that place, but they had the hottest waitresses and bartenders.
    "Nice catch, Hayes. Don't ever ****in' do it again." -Lou Brown

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    Default Re: Classic Pirates

    Quote Originally Posted by Waiting for LaRoche View Post
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    I knew I had it wrong.

    To be honest 2001-2008 are a blur to me.
    Not just when it comes to Pirates baseball, but life in general.
    I knew what day it was by which drink special I was heading to.
    I think I can count on one hand the number of games I saw at PNC Park sober.
    Every game started at Hi-Tops and ended at Hi-Tops.
    God, I hated that place, but they had the hottest waitresses and bartenders.


    It's all good. If I helped you remember a year or 2 throwing down some quick numbers and years, then cool

    I reference the 2008 team so often so I knew that but I was most interested in your comments/memory regarding the pitching. Maybe you were thinking about or remembering the Bullpen. Littlefield was always known for ignoring every other aspect of the team and organization and building a strong Bullpen. He tended to build teams around the bullpen for whatever strange reason. We had some good BP's statistically under Littlefield. None were "great" for all of the time he put into their construction... but perhaps that's what you were thinking? 'Cause the Starting Pitching was consistently the suck from 2001+ outside of a middle of the pack ranking of 15th in 2004
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Classic Pirates

    Quote Originally Posted by CROSSBONES View Post
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    Why is Garrett Jones sitting?
    He should be sitting more often, IMO.

    The guy has played all but 2 games since he started.
    Free your *** and your mind will follow.
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    Default Re: Classic Pirates

    Quote Originally Posted by cocktailsfor2 View Post
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    He should be sitting more often, IMO.

    The guy has played all but 2 games since he started.
    He should get a lot of time on the pine in September. Give Clement a bunch of AB's
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    Default Re: Classic Pirates

    In an ideal world Jones would sit most of the games, the problem is I can't see who else you play. If the team's ever going to be good Jones isn't going to cut it at 1B (or in RF). He really hasn't shown an above average skill this year. I know people like to point to SS as the obvious area of need (aside from pitching), but you can actually get away with poor hitting shortstops a lot of the time because there just aren't enough guys to go around at the position. Looking at the other SS in the division, Cedeno's probably the second best one (as sad as that may be). You don't see teams get away with having guys like Jones and Milledge manning the corners on the right side of the field. Unfortunately there really isn't a clear answer there, but you might as well be rotating in as many guys as possible (Clement, Moss, Bowker, etc.) to see if one of them can stick.

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    Default Re: Classic Pirates

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    It's all good. If I helped you remember a year or 2 throwing down some quick numbers and years, then cool

    I reference the 2008 team so often so I knew that but I was most interested in your comments/memory regarding the pitching. Maybe you were thinking about or remembering the Bullpen. Littlefield was always known for ignoring every other aspect of the team and organization and building a strong Bullpen. He tended to build teams around the bullpen for whatever strange reason. We had some good BP's statistically under Littlefield. None were "great" for all of the time he put into their construction... but perhaps that's what you were thinking? 'Cause the Starting Pitching was consistently the suck from 2001+ outside of a middle of the pack ranking of 15th in 2004
    I want to say it was the year Snell was actually strong.
    "Nice catch, Hayes. Don't ever ****in' do it again." -Lou Brown

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