Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Huntington And The Patience Approach

      
  1. #1
    Kipper's Avatar
    Status : Kipper is offline
    Rank : Legend
    Join Date : Oct 8, 2009
    Posts : 67,323
    Threads : 1817
    Last Online : Apr-25-2017 @ 08:36 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Huntington And The Patience Approach

    I was browsing around over at Rum Bunter this morning enjoying a cup of coffee and such and came across a pretty interesting article. I personally don't and am not sure how many people do catch Rocco DeMaro after Pirates games. I would more if I had the time because there's always something informative that comes from it maybe via interview or statistic etc...

    This time he sat down with Neal Huntington and the guys at Rum Bunter discussed it and I found it to be pretty interesting. Here's a snippet..

    After the game, we heard Neal Huntington quickly elude to the fact that patience is one of the mistakes he has made. Huntington was speaking with Rocco DeMaro in an excellent interview on Roccos’ Extra Innings show. We weren’t able to stay for the show. We had ****ed off a pile of Mets fans and their fat wives (is that a requirement?) plus the boy needed to get his sleep. The vomit in my mouth from watching the game was starting to stink too.
    `
    In the same answer that he discussed patience being perhaps a weakness, Huntington mentioned that he may have pulled the plug on Jose Bautista too quickly. (15 HR in 2007, 15 in ‘08, 13 in ‘09, 38 in 2010) It floored me.
    `
    But maybe that explains things? Perhaps he believes Ryan Doumit is going to find that stroke of years gone by. Maybe that is that why Ryan Doumit is getting an extended look in RF. Huntington mentioned a rapid fire of platoon possibilities including Brandon Moss, John Bowker, Jeff Clement (extra time was spent on Clement and how he could be a direct correlation of not having enought patience), Garrett Jones, and Ryan Doumit.
    `
    It was a glimpse, albeit a quick glimpse, inside the mind of Neal Huntington. No other interviewer in this town has done that.
    `
    Perhaps the idea of patience is why the rotation still looks as awful as ever. Is that why Zach Duke and Paul Maholm weren’t moved at the deadline? Is that why Lastings Milledge continues to get plate appearances? Heh, even the best have their moments.

    Read The Full Article ... http://rumbunter.com/2010/08/20/is-j...ad/#more-14701
    Name:  Jose_Bautista_Steroids.jpg
Views: 6
Size:  43.7 KB
    The part about Bautista is interesting. I'd hate for Huntington to start taking on a second guessing persona. Bautista isn't really explainable. He still can't hit, still can't play defense but his power numbers have almost tripled. It screams steroids to me but the thing is, trading Bautista shouldn't be second guessed. He wasn't showing promise in any category while here. Batting Average, Power, Defense were all far below average for a 3B in his time here.

    There is a point however and that is "patience". We all know that Huntington loves his stats and he has to have something in that computer that tells him peak years during a players career, trends and other things that could take the rest of us some ridiculous amount of time to compile. Perhaps he relied on the human judgment call more than he wanted or should've with say a guy like Bautista. However a guy like Bautista isn't someone that Huntington should be using as a means to second guess himself or preach patience. It should be Tom Gorzelanny who to me is the only person of usefulness I've felt Huntington has gotten rid of a little early. He was young, cheap and at least had shown the ability to be good at one point in his short career. He was always the guy out of the 3 lefties of Duke and Maholm that had the better pitch repertoire but he was also the one with the worst control. Where Gorzelanny was undervalued, Maholm and Duke have likely been overvalued. These things are hit and miss all of the time. We've seen Pittsburgh Penguins GM give up on a guy like Matt Moulson way too early. We saw Bill Cowher and Kevin Colbert give up on Mike Vrabel way too early. It happens, you just want it to happen as less as possible.

    Let's get back to Patience because Tom from Rum Bunter makes a good point about Doumit and Milledge and Clement and ... Players peak at weird times. Some guys could be late bloomers and you want to be on the receiving end of that. Look at Cliff Lee. Look at Chris Carpenter. Look at the half season that we got from Garett Jones last year? Look at what we got from Nyjer Morgan that enabled us to get some kind of value in a trade? Freddy Sanchez had his peak seasons at the ages of 28 and 29. Who can forget Jason Schmidt whose career took off at the age of 29?

    If you see potential in a player you don't want to give up on them because it's all far too common where a player can simply turn it on. It just suddenly "clicks" with them and there's no good reason. Take for instance a guy like Neil Walker. Most of the fans had given up on Walker. I was one of them. I think 95% of this message Board here at the The Pirates Forum at PSF had. Hell, Huntington himself did as well. Neil Walker looked like someone that could be stuck as a career minor leaguer. He showed improvements to certain key stats in 2009 but you still didn't know or believe if the entire package would come together... and it did. If Walker were a major league player after the production he put up in 2008-09 in AAA, he'd have been traded or lost his job in a lot of cases..

    It's the reason why I'm not an advocate of giving up on a guy like Lastings Milledge who is still just 25 years old. He hits for average and despite taking routes to balls that makes Nyjer Morgan go "WTF?", he's not killing the team defensively as a metric like UZR shows at Fangraphs - http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...41&position=OF . Somewhere buried is that power that produced 14 homers when he was younger. The Pirates can't afford to give up potential and see it blossom elsewhere and I think Neal Huntington is coming around to seeing that realization. for roster requirements and such, you can't hold onto every player you feel has potential, so tough decisions have to be made.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Neal_Huntington_Nostradamus.jpg 
Views:	14 
Size:	43.5 KB 
ID:	2984It's a tough job. Not every player is going to pan out, no matter how much patience you show them and sometimes the thing that makes a GM go from average-good to great is having that extra 6th sense in making those right calls. Walt Jocketty over in Cincinnati is a fine example of some that seems like he has a Delorean and travels to the future and back. The freakish year Scott Rolen is having is something that usually happens for Walt Jocketty. Like Kenny Rogers sang in The Gambler .... "You've got to know when to hold then, know when to fold them, know when to walk away, know when to run".

    While Huntington is preaching more patience from himself and it explains why guys like Doumit are getting shots that most of us are scratching our heads over etc... it's also a smart idea too. It doesn't mean that Huntington shouldn't be trying to find upgrades (and when I say upgrades I'm not talking about slightly better either). It just means that you shouldn't and can't give up on players too soon despite current shortcomings. Doumit due to age might have had his peak and is past it but you can't blame Huntington for not wanting to be sure. This season went into experimentation mode months ago and unlike Spring Training, you can't get a better platform for evaluation than in meaningful games at the MLB level.
    Last edited by Kipper; Feb-27-2015 at 08:30 AM.
    The Standard Is The Standard and The Pittsburgh Sports Forum Is The Standard


  2. #2
    indybucfan's Avatar
    Status : indybucfan is offline
    Rank : Major Leaguer
    Join Date : Oct 16, 2009
    Posts : 1,226
    Threads : 45
    Last Online : Feb-11-2015 @ 07:42 AM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Huntington And The Patience Approach

    Good stuff Kip!

  3. #3
    buccoray61's Avatar
    Status : buccoray61 is offline
    Rank : The Elite
    Join Date : Oct 11, 2009
    Posts : 3,885
    Threads : 691
    Last Online : Apr-03-2017 @ 06:56 AM

    Default Re: Huntington And The Patience Approach

    The part about Bautista is interesting. I'd hate for Huntington to start taking on a second guessing persona. Bautista isn't really explainable. He still can't hit, still can't play defense but his power numbers have almost tripled. It screams steroids to me but the thing is, trading Bautista shouldn't be second guessed. He wasn't showing promise in any category while here. Batting Average, Power, Defense were all far below average for a 3B in his time here.
    Alot of people believe that as soon as the Pirates sent Bautista to Toronto he immediately bloosomed into a star,not true. Many fail to check that during the 2009 season (his first full season with Toronto) Jose stunk it up like he did in Pittsburgh .235 batting average 13 homers,40 R.B.I's N.H does have reasons to second guess himself.but getting rid of Bautista isn't one of them.
    Are these morons getting dumber or just louder-Mayor Quimby

  4. #4
    Mister Pittsburgh's Avatar
    Status : Mister Pittsburgh is offline
    Rank : Major Leaguer
    Join Date : Oct 16, 2009
    Posts : 1,383
    Threads : 122
    Last Online : Apr-27-2013 @ 05:09 PM

    Default Re: Huntington And The Patience Approach

    Interesting stuff. Correct me if I am wrong here, but I thought I read somewhere where Bautista said Toronto's hitting coach noticed something about his swing that he worked on and credits for his power surge. Maybe our coaches suck. They got rid of Kerrington. Have any hitters we acquired in the trades actually improved under Long's direction? Clement, Moss, Cedeno, LaRoche all never did any better. Throw in guys like Aki, Church, Doumit having crap seasons at the plate. Just a thought but maybe we need better coaches.

  5. #5
    Kipper's Avatar
    Status : Kipper is offline
    Rank : Legend
    Join Date : Oct 8, 2009
    Posts : 67,323
    Threads : 1817
    Last Online : Apr-25-2017 @ 08:36 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Huntington And The Patience Approach

    Quote Originally Posted by buccoray61 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Alot of people believe that as soon as the Pirates sent Bautista to Toronto he immediately bloosomed into a star,not true. Many fail to check that during the 2009 season (his first full season with Toronto) Jose stunk it up like he did in Pittsburgh .235 batting average 13 homers,40 R.B.I's N.H does have reasons to second guess himself.but getting rid of Bautista isn't one of them.
    Oh yeah, I agree with this and that's what I was trying to say. Bautista never could hit and play defense. He still stinks at both. We've just seen his power numbers nearly triple from his career high. I don't think anyone could've predicted that.

    So while I can understand maybe the second guessing on giving up on a guy who was young at the time like Bautista because you could use some of that production, there's also some legit concerns about where Bautista's sudden power surge has come from as well
    The Standard Is The Standard and The Pittsburgh Sports Forum Is The Standard


  6. #6
    Kipper's Avatar
    Status : Kipper is offline
    Rank : Legend
    Join Date : Oct 8, 2009
    Posts : 67,323
    Threads : 1817
    Last Online : Apr-25-2017 @ 08:36 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Huntington And The Patience Approach

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Pittsburgh View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Interesting stuff. Correct me if I am wrong here, but I thought I read somewhere where Bautista said Toronto's hitting coach noticed something about his swing that he worked on and credits for his power surge. Maybe our coaches suck. They got rid of Kerrington. Have any hitters we acquired in the trades actually improved under Long's direction? Clement, Moss, Cedeno, LaRoche all never did any better. Throw in guys like Aki, Church, Doumit having crap seasons at the plate. Just a thought but maybe we need better coaches.
    They always say that a hitting coach did something and it improved them. Last year Ross Ohlendorf was talking up Joe Kerrigan like he was the **** for helping fix him..

    Remember during the steroid years, how it was always a mechinical "fix" that was the recent for the power surges?

    sure we have some crap coaches. Don Long isn't getting enough out of his players and needs to be put the rest with the organization but there's no way that a mechanical "fix" to Bautista has resulted in the same lack of ability to hit for anything near average but the ball is suddenly sailing a lot further off of his bat when he does make the seldom contact he does.

    I don't buy it
    The Standard Is The Standard and The Pittsburgh Sports Forum Is The Standard


  7. #7
    Steelreign's Avatar

    Status : Steelreign is offline
    Rank : Legend
    Join Date : Oct 12, 2009
    Location : Wheatfield, Indiana
    Posts : 18,943
    Threads : 227
    Last Online : Nov-02-2016 @ 07:58 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Huntington And The Patience Approach

    He certainly doesn't seem as lanky as when he was here. Remember when DL left him unprotected in the rule 5 draft? And how everyone had a **** fit. Bautista = Brady Anderson.
    Pittsburgh Sports Forum: Member Driven and no ads

  8. #8
    wvkeeper's Avatar
    Status : wvkeeper is offline
    Rank : Major Leaguer
    Join Date : Oct 17, 2009
    Location : Right There
    Posts : 1,367
    Threads : 158
    Last Online : Nov-03-2016 @ 07:14 AM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Huntington And The Patience Approach

    Great Post Kipper.

  9. #9
    Kipper's Avatar
    Status : Kipper is offline
    Rank : Legend
    Join Date : Oct 8, 2009
    Posts : 67,323
    Threads : 1817
    Last Online : Apr-25-2017 @ 08:36 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Huntington And The Patience Approach

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelreign View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    He certainly doesn't seem as lanky as when he was here. Remember when DL left him unprotected in the rule 5 draft? And how everyone had a **** fit. Bautista = Brady Anderson.
    I remember when people had **** fits that we traded away Brent Lillibrige too

    Yeah, I just can't accept Bautista's power numbers to be legit. jose Bautista is not a more pwoerful hitter than Dunn, A-Rod, Pujols etc...
    The Standard Is The Standard and The Pittsburgh Sports Forum Is The Standard


  10. #10
    Steelreign's Avatar

    Status : Steelreign is offline
    Rank : Legend
    Join Date : Oct 12, 2009
    Location : Wheatfield, Indiana
    Posts : 18,943
    Threads : 227
    Last Online : Nov-02-2016 @ 07:58 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Huntington And The Patience Approach

    As for Bautista, you know what they say, even the sun shines on a dog's *** every now and then. I'll take Alvarez over JB six times a week and twice on Sundays. JB is doing once for a season what Pedro will more than likely do 5 or 6 times in his carer and earlier in his career.
    Pittsburgh Sports Forum: Member Driven and no ads

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •