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Thread: "The Blueprint"

      
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    Default "The Blueprint"

    As a partial season ticket holder, I got this through the mail earlier today. I wanted to say something about it, but I didn't think it was available online. Turns out it is.

    http://pirates.mlb.com/pit/downloads.../blueprint.pdf

    Comes with a letter from Frank Coonelly, then a nice graphical presentation of the changes that have been made. Stuff on the increased scouting staff, player development, guys acquired through the trades and draft, then a comparison of their top 30 prospect lists from 2007, the beginning of 2009, and the end of 2009 (wow is the 2007 list depressing).

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    Default Re: "The Blueprint"

    Quote Originally Posted by jnn123 View Post
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    As a partial season ticket holder, I got this through the mail earlier today. I wanted to say something about it, but I didn't think it was available online. Turns out it is.

    http://pirates.mlb.com/pit/downloads.../blueprint.pdf

    Comes with a letter from Frank Coonelly, then a nice graphical presentation of the changes that have been made. Stuff on the increased scouting staff, player development, guys acquired through the trades and draft, then a comparison of their top 30 prospect lists from 2007, the beginning of 2009, and the end of 2009 [HIGH-LIGHT](wow is the 2007 list depressing).[/HIGH-LIGHT]
    Indeed it is a sorry group.
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    Default Re: "The Blueprint"

    That is a pretty cool rundown. I still think it is bull**** to talk about being aggressive in foreign markets, then their signings were limited to some asian high schoolers. Not one top 25 latin signing. That is pathetic in a year after they spent a lot less money on the draft than the previous year.

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    Default Re: "The Blueprint"

    That was really good. I saved the pdf Tha top 30 from 2007 to now was amazing. Sad in one way looking at 2007 but is the best glimmer of hope going forward seeing where it is now. I was really surprised to see the end of 2009 have Van Rosenberg that high up... and Colton Cain not listed. Many have considered Cain to be the better of the 2. Not to mention guys that should be moving up or are developing on a Venezuelean team that completely dominated that league.

    International signings didn't go the way anyone wanted for one reason or another but, you know, learning process. You move on from that, correct mistakes and philosophies and get them the next time.

    Bottom line is that the organization is heading in the right direction and has a nice glimer of hope going forward for the first time in over a generation. At this point, 2 years after DL and McClatchy, I'm not sure we could realistically hoped for a ton more than that. Now it's a matter of doing these things year in and year out, correct some growing mistakes and prepping a positive future for the organization and ultimately the major league team to have success

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    Default Re: "The Blueprint"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    That was really good. I saved the pdf Tha top 30 from 2007 to now was amazing. Sad in one way looking at 2007 but is the best glimmer of hope going forward seeing where it is now. I was really surprised to see the end of 2009 have Van Rosenberg that high up... and Colton Cain not listed. Many have considered Cain to be the better of the 2.
    I think Von Rosenberg was pretty widely considered the more polished pitcher, whereas Cain was more a raw talent. One thing I noticed is that their top 30 is identical to what Dejan ran in the Post Gazette in August, which he said was compiled with help from guys in Pirates player development, who I believe work exclusively with the guys who have already reached the US. That would explain the leaving off of the Latin American players. The only difference from the list in the PG and that one is that ZVR had just signed when the story ran, so he wasn't listed, but Dejan notes that he would "immediately enter the top 10". Looks like they just threw him on at 10 and bumped everyone else down a spot, bumping Rogelio Noris off the list completely.

    There are quite a few changes I would make to that list, not quite sure how they compiled it. I think I'd include Cain in the early teens (Kevin Goldstein had him at #10), I'd bump Alderson down a few spots (at least below Lincoln, maybe below Sanchez), move Argenis Diaz and Quincy Latimore towards the bottom, remove guys like Ford and Hacker, and add guys like Brett Lorin and Justin Wilson in there somewhere. Also interesting that the Pirates seem to think far less of Rudy Owens than many of the national writers after his season. I kind of understand, Zach Duke had an even better year at the same age between A+ and AA. Both soft-tossing lefties who rely on changeups and curves.

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    Default Re: "The Blueprint"

    NH and The Boys have done an amazing job in a short period of time. When they took over, the entire organization was in shambles. The stated goals were to rebuild the scouting department...DONE. Singulate the training and drills from rookie ball thru the majors...DONE. Re stock the minor league system with legitimate talent...ONGOING PROCESS. Be more aggressive in the international markets...WORK IN PROGRESS.
    The Pirates were in such a plundered state that there was no way it could all be fixed at once, but they are getting it done and are giving us real hope for the future.
    To look at the talent in the minors now, compared to 2 years ago, it ought to be even better 2 years from now. The Dominican signings will satisfy more fans when NH figures out how to play that game, because it truly is a game where the rules are constantly changing. They will continue to change as long as these rogue agents continue to be allowed to make them.
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    Default Re: "The Blueprint"

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelreign View Post
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    NH and The Boys have done an amazing job in a short period of time. When they took over, the entire organization was in shambles. The stated goals were to rebuild the scouting department...DONE. Singulate the training and drills from rookie ball thru the majors...DONE. Re stock the minor league system with legitimate talent...ONGOING PROCESS. Be more aggressive in the international markets...WORK IN PROGRESS.
    The Pirates were in such a plundered state that there was no way it could all be fixed at once, but they are getting it done and are giving us real hope for the future.
    To look at the talent in the minors now, compared to 2 years ago, it ought to be even better 2 years from now. The Dominican signings will satisfy more fans when NH figures out how to play that game, because it truly is a game where the rules are constantly changing. They will continue to change as long as these rogue agents continue to be allowed to make them.
    Excellent summary - $$$$

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    Default Re: "The Blueprint"

    Quote Originally Posted by jnn123 View Post
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    I think Von Rosenberg was pretty widely considered the more polished pitcher, whereas Cain was more a raw talent. One thing I noticed is that their top 30 is identical to what Dejan ran in the Post Gazette in August, which he said was compiled with help from guys in Pirates player development, who I believe work exclusively with the guys who have already reached the US. That would explain the leaving off of the Latin American players. The only difference from the list in the PG and that one is that ZVR had just signed when the story ran, so he wasn't listed, but Dejan notes that he would "immediately enter the top 10". Looks like they just threw him on at 10 and bumped everyone else down a spot, bumping Rogelio Noris off the list completely.

    There are quite a few changes I would make to that list, not quite sure how they compiled it. I think I'd include Cain in the early teens (Kevin Goldstein had him at #10), I'd bump Alderson down a few spots (at least below Lincoln, maybe below Sanchez), move Argenis Diaz and Quincy Latimore towards the bottom, remove guys like Ford and Hacker, and add guys like Brett Lorin and Justin Wilson in there somewhere. Also interesting that the Pirates seem to think far less of Rudy Owens than many of the national writers after his season. I kind of understand, Zach Duke had an even better year at the same age between A+ and AA. Both soft-tossing lefties who rely on changeups and curves.
    I agree with almost all of your suggestions in terms of the list.

    And in terms of Von Rosenberg...he certainly was the most polished of all the pitchers...BUT...(and I think you mentioned this too...) the raw skills of Cain could well lead him to be the better pitchers...but what I hope we have here is a Lincecum+Cain argument for our future #1 starters.
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    Default Re: "The Blueprint"

    I'm very encouraged with the state of the organization now. The state of the major league team is better than most fans realize. A steep price had to be paid for the barren talent pool . Eventually the talent will bubble up to the surface at the major league level. Things will improve next year and in 2011 I think we make a run at .500 with better things to come after that. With top of the rotation talent the team could contend but I'm not sure the organization currently contains any pitchers who grade out that high.

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    Default Re: "The Blueprint"

    Quote Originally Posted by moneytalks View Post
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    Excellent summary - $$$$

    Ditto!

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    Default Re: "The Blueprint"

    I'm very encouraged by the oranization has done. I'm not even going to worry so much about the lack of Latin signings just yet. As Kipper has stated, it's a learning process. It's not like the Bucs have years of experience. Besides that, as SteelReign has mentioned, they've already done so much in such little time. It's only going to get better.

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    Default Re: "The Blueprint"

    Quote Originally Posted by jnn123 View Post
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    I think Von Rosenberg was pretty widely considered the more polished pitcher, whereas Cain was more a raw talent. One thing I noticed is that their top 30 is identical to what Dejan ran in the Post Gazette in August, which he said was compiled with help from guys in Pirates player development, who I believe work exclusively with the guys who have already reached the US. That would explain the leaving off of the Latin American players. The only difference from the list in the PG and that one is that ZVR had just signed when the story ran, so he wasn't listed, but Dejan notes that he would "immediately enter the top 10". Looks like they just threw him on at 10 and bumped everyone else down a spot, bumping Rogelio Noris off the list completely.

    There are quite a few changes I would make to that list, not quite sure how they compiled it. I think I'd include Cain in the early teens (Kevin Goldstein had him at #10), I'd bump Alderson down a few spots (at least below Lincoln, maybe below Sanchez), move Argenis Diaz and Quincy Latimore towards the bottom, [HIGH-LIGHT]remove guys like Ford and Hacker, and add guys like Brett Lorin and Justin Wilson[/HIGH-LIGHT] in there somewhere. Also interesting that the Pirates seem to think far less of Rudy Owens than many of the national writers after his season. I kind of understand, Zach Duke had an even better year at the same age between A+ and AA. Both soft-tossing lefties who rely on changeups and curves.
    I was surprised to see guys like Lorin and Wilson off of there. Wilson started to come on strong at the end of the year. Made some better starts and such as the season went on. Some had said that he would struggle early and that was mainly due to the overuse he had receive at college and that's what appeared to happen. Brett Lorin to me, was the best pitcher in return in that Jack/Snell deal. I scratched my head when they listed and showed a picture of Nathan Adcock who hasn't produced much outside of high BB/9 and H/9 numbers along with lower K/9 numbers. Still young, came out of HS... Lorin has those nice K/9 numbers that this organization lacks from pitchers. Another reason I can't wait to follow ZVR and Cain this year

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    Default Re: "The Blueprint"

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaker100 View Post
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    I'm very encouraged with the state of the organization now. The state of the major league team is better than most fans realize. A steep price had to be paid for the barren talent pool . Eventually the talent will bubble up to the surface at the major league level. Things will improve next year and in 2011 I think we make a run at .500 with better things to come after that. With top of the rotation talent the team could contend but I'm not sure the organization currently contains any pitchers who grade out that high.
    Your bubble up to the surface comment was really nice wording That's really what it is during a team rebuild. There's a bunch of people out there that have this belief that "building" is only exclusive to the major league team in the present. As far as I know, there's never been a building or rebuilding process that wasn't dependent on the very bottom of an organizational system. Some teams can have a quicker turn around but it's only because they had enough talent within their system to do so, to bubble up to the surface in a shorter amount of time. The Pirates/ Hunting and Coonelly didn't have that option. They inherited an organization that had been mired in a decades plus worth of bad drafting, bad scouting, bad player development and had a MLB team that saw many players nearing the end f their contracts, ready to exit their primes and had some injuries that wouldn't be helpful in the future.

    To this day, I still don't know why anyone take a Pirates front office job at the time NH and FC did That was like being given a toothbrush and told to clean piles of crap in a dilapidated outhouse and turn it into a mansion. For some fans, they want/wanted to see that happen within a year. That the organization has come this far on paper at least, in the matter of 2 years really is pretty remarkable. I thought it would take longer.

    It took 15 years worth of incompetence to put the Pirates in the state they were at when the new FO took over, it's going to be something special to see it get turned around 1/3 of that time.

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    Default Re: "The Blueprint"

    I keep forgetting how young Zack Duke is really. I mean the guy is only 26. Wow!

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    Default Re: "The Blueprint"

    That' like being given a toothbrush and told to clean piles of crap in a dilapidated outhouse and turn it into a mansion now that made my morning
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