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Thread: Why running QB's create so much controversey.

      
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    Default Why running QB's create so much controversey.

    QB's like DD with his superior athletic ability will always create controversy and here's why. Most NFL fans (me included, but I am learning) look at the result and the excitement level of the given play. This is why so few people see just how bad Dixon really is, he can be exciting, this is why Vick created such controversy.

    What we need to watch is how well DD knows the 22 players on the field. For example:
    1. Does he realize our O line will not give him a solid, long lasting pocket, and therefore read the D and hit the open receiver for a short gain and an occasional long pass to keep the D honest...............OR................does he drop back and look around to see what might materialize and get his dick stuck in the dirt or run for his life............so far he has done the latter!

    2. Does he recognize defensive schemes and realize where the best chance is for a completed pass..........OR..........does he drop back and look around to see what might materialize and get his dick stuck in the dirt or run for his life............so far he has done the latter!

    He has the arm to deliver a pretty pass and he looks great scrambling and this is why people ooh and ahh about him. But does he have what it takes to "methodically" move the team down the field? We shall see!

    Ben often throws passes that look like he's throwing in to the middle of a mess but he understands that, based on the D, his receiver is going to have a 6-8 inch opening for a split second........he doesn't have to wait to see if it happens!

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    Default Re: Why running QB's create so much controversey.

    The reason why they are bad quarterbacks (and yes I will come out and say they are bad quarterbacks) is because they aren't really quarterbacks. They are runningbacks at the QB position...I hope Dixon proves me wrong, but him and other like him (Mike Vick) do not know how to manage a game, read defenses, hang in the pocket and deliver passes...they dont know how to lead an offense. They know how to run the ball and when someone is open how to get the ball to them (as long as they dont have pressure). I am not sure, but I haven't really seen Dixon be very successful throwing the ball on the run...Vick wasn't either...when he was running he was running.
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    Default Re: Why running QB's create so much controversey.

    Good points all. A successful NFL QB is generally one who plays the game mentally as well as physically. Tom Brady is a good example. He doesn't have a rocket arm, doesn't run like the wind but shreds defenses because he knows where and when to throw the ball. Joe Montana was the same. Ben sees the field as well as anyone and also has the ability to move at the same time. He doesn't have a cannon for an arm, but knows where to throw a ball.

    I hope beyond all hope that DD can play decently for 4 games until Ben gets back, and I hate to but these comments are exactly why I think our QB situation needs seriously addressed next year.

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    Default Re: Why running QB's create so much controversey.

    Dixon doesn't have an arm. He has the arm strength of a dead mouse.

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    Default Re: Why running QB's create so much controversey.

    Both of your points have more to do with lack of "real-time" game experience, than the ability to run the ball. Hopefully as Dixon gains game experience, things slow down and he begins to find open receivers easier.

    If anyone watched the Michigan vs UConn game last Saturday, they mentioned several times that Michigan QB Denard Robinson said... last season when he ran a "read" play, there was no read! He had already made up his mind that he was going to run. After gaining some experience last year and in Spring practice, the game has slowed down to the point where he can identify the defender he is suppose to "read" and then make the appropriate decision.

    If you look at Batch's stats from 2006 and Leftwich's stats from 2008 (when they both filled in for injured QB's) each only attempted about [HIGH-LIGHT]7.5[/HIGH-LIGHT] passes per game. Hopefully we'll see similar numbers with Dixon.

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    Default Re: Why running QB's create so much controversey.

    The real problem as these "mobile" QB's infest the NFL is that regardless of their athleticism, an NFL QB has to be a QB first and an athlete 2nd. The McNabbs, Vicks, Youngs, and Jacksons of the NFL are athletes first and QB second. This is not now nor ever will be a formula for success in the NFL. Randall Cunningham is a classic example of a "mobile" QB who finally realized that if he didn't learn to throw from the pocket, his career was doomed. After several injury laced seasons, he went to Minnesota and embraced the role of a pocket passer and had the intelligence to excell at it. He had some remarkable years very late in his career ONCE he became a QB first and an athlete second! Kordell Stewart and Jamarcus Russell are classic examples of what NOT to do! Both should have stayed in college and taken a few geometry classes! Both could throw 70 yards from their knees...problem was, they couldn't hit a target moving vertically on the field! They could stand in the pocket all day and never hit a receiver! Again, Dixon SEEMS to be of this mold and if history teaches us anything...he won't have much of a chance of succeeding! Where's Akili Smith these days?

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    Thumbs up Re: Why running QB's create so much controversey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Jorgan View Post
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    The real problem as these "mobile" QB's infest the NFL is that regardless of their athleticism, an NFL QB has to be a QB first and an athlete 2nd. The McNabbs, Vicks, Youngs, and Jacksons of the NFL are athletes first and QB second. This is not now nor ever will be a formula for success in the NFL. Randall Cunningham is a classic example of a "mobile" QB who finally realized that if he didn't learn to throw from the pocket, his career was doomed. After several injury laced seasons, he went to Minnesota and embraced the role of a pocket passer and had the intelligence to excell at it. He had some remarkable years very late in his career ONCE he became a QB first and an athlete second! Kordell Stewart and Jamarcus Russell are classic examples of what NOT to do! Both should have stayed in college and taken a few geometry classes! Both could throw 70 yards from their knees...problem was, they couldn't hit a target moving vertically on the field! They could stand in the pocket all day and never hit a receiver! Again, Dixon SEEMS to be of this mold and if history teaches us anything...he won't have much of a chance of succeeding! Where's Akili Smith these days?

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    Default Re: Why running QB's create so much controversey.

    It can be argued that Elway, Steve Young and Roethlisberger were/are "Mobile QB's" as well. None of them could run like the above mentioned, but at the same time, none could be considered "Pocket Passers." They all scramble(d), move(d) the pocket, used their feet as well as their arm to gain the sticks...

    Personally, I would rather have a guy that has the ability to make plays with his feet (in a pinch). It is what it is, and we need to utilize all the talents of all of our players regardless of what ESPN tells you what a QB is "supposed" to do...

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    Default Re: Why running QB's create so much controversey.

    I'd only consider a QB "mobile" if he could outrun the linebackers

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    Default Re: Why running QB's create so much controversey.

    ESPN doesn't decide my opinions, I've always felt runningbacks trying to play quarterbacks sucked.
    Mobile quarterbacks are not running or happy feet quarterbacks. Do you want another Tommy Maddox ? Elway, Ben and Steve Young have the well balanced blend of being able to run when there is a breakdown or no open receivers. Dixon runs because he can't find the open receivers or panics as soon as there is an ounce of pressure. He also has little arm strength and so he runs.
    He's just another wannabee and would be out of the league if he insisted upon being a starter. Example: Kordell Stewart.

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    Default Re: Why running QB's create so much controversey.

    When I think of "running" QB's I think of Eric Crouch, Tommie Frazier, Jamelle Holieway... guys like that! Not a guy who threw for over 2100 yards in both his Junior and Senior seasons.

    And then there are the "non running" QB's that sucked in the NFL.... Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, Chris Simms, Rick Mirer, Chuck Long, Todd Marinovich... Matt Leinart ...

    Let's face it... finding a successful NFL QB is a crap shoot! ...We won't really know about Dixon until he plays more! All the aforementioned QB's got more than 1 game to prove themselves (one way or the other.)

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    Default Re: Why running QB's create so much controversey.

    Quote Originally Posted by (419)BlackNGold View Post
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    When I think of "running" QB's I think of Eric Crouch, Tommie Frazier, Jamelle Holieway... guys like that! Not a guy who threw for over 2100 yards in both his Junior and Senior seasons.

    And then there are the "non running" QB's that sucked in the NFL.... Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, Chris Simms, Rick Mirer, Chuck Long, Todd Marinovich... Matt Leinart ...

    Let's face it... finding a successful NFL QB is a crap shoot! ...We won't really know about Dixon until he plays more! All the aforementioned QB's got more than 1 game to prove themselves (one way or the other.)
    Akili Smith, Troy Smith, Kordell Stewart, ... Dennis Dixon

    All sucked, all were drafted higher than Dennis Dixon. Hell, the only QB's with "legs" that have been successful in the modern NFL era (McNabb, McNair, Cunningham) 2 of those guys were Top 3 first round picks and Cunningham was a 2nd rounder.

    Let's face it, Dixon was drafted to be a backup and nothing more and he's most likely nothing mroe than that. I want the kid of course to do well, play well and win us Football games but I'm not going to try and make him out to be mroe than he is which is a career backup. Hopefully he can win us 3 or 4 games while our franchise QB is serving up a suspension
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    Default Re: Why running QB's create so much controversey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stone View Post
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    QB's like DD with his superior athletic ability will always create controversy and here's why. Most NFL fans (me included, but I am learning) look at the result and the excitement level of the given play. This is why so few people see just how bad Dixon really is, he can be exciting, this is why Vick created such controversy.

    What we need to watch is how well DD knows the 22 players on the field. For example:
    1. Does he realize our O line will not give him a solid, long lasting pocket, and therefore read the D and hit the open receiver for a short gain and an occasional long pass to keep the D honest...............OR................does he drop back and look around to see what might materialize and get his dick stuck in the dirt or run for his life............so far he has done the latter!

    2. Does he recognize defensive schemes and realize where the best chance is for a completed pass..........OR..........does he drop back and look around to see what might materialize and get his dick stuck in the dirt or run for his life............so far he has done the latter!

    He has the arm to deliver a pretty pass and he looks great scrambling and this is why people ooh and ahh about him. But does he have what it takes to "methodically" move the team down the field? We shall see!

    Ben often throws passes that look like he's throwing in to the middle of a mess but he understands that, based on the D, his receiver is going to have a 6-8 inch opening for a split second........he doesn't have to wait to see if it happens!
    There's also the Offenses they run in College as well. Guys that run Spread offenses can produce some god-like statistics in College but struggle to run a pro-style offense and can't figure out pro-defenses .. at all...

    Some spread offense QB's off the top of my head - Troy Smith, Tim Tebow, Colt Brennan, Paul Smith, Dennis Dixon, Vince Young ..

    There's a list of guys to come too like Pat white, Sam Bradford, Juice Williams, Terrell Pryor (who I saw during his highschool career look fantastic with his legs and questionable hitting a moving target against a good defense).

    At some point guys from the Spread are going to adapt and make it in the NFL... just hasn't happened yet
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    Default Re: Why running QB's create so much controversey.

    I still contend that Ben is a QB with "legs!" He's not breaking any speed records, but he does his best work outside the pocket...just sayin?

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    Default Re: Why running QB's create so much controversey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bton66 View Post
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    I still contend that Ben is a QB with "legs!" He's not breaking any speed records, but he does his best work outside the pocket...just sayin?
    Ben averages 8 yards per game running in his career. He's not a running QB. Ben throws first pretty much 99% of the time
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