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Thread: Carrasco Slams the Pirate Cluubhouse

      
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    Default Carrasco Slams the Pirate Cluubhouse

    Tonight will mark the Pirates' first meeting with Arizona since the five-player trade that brought catcher Chris Snyder, shortstop Pedro Ciriaco and $3 million to Pittsburgh and sent outfielder Bobby Crosby, reliever D.J. Carrasco and shortstop Bobby Crosby to the Diamondbacks.

    Snyder expressed appreciation toward Arizona for trading him when it was clear Miguel Montero would be the starting catcher there.

    "I have no hard feelings," he said. "They tried on numerous occasions to trade me, and I didn't look at it as they didn't like me. They had a situation where I was the one who was not in their future plans."

    Carrasco, as eager to be traded as Snyder had been, was asked Thursday in Cincinnati his view of the Pirates, and he commented on the clubhouse atmosphere.

    "You would think there's a lot of negative energy from losing all the time," Carrasco said. "But, in my opinion, when I was there, the guys don't take it seriously enough that they're losing all the time. That's something that needs to be worked on internally from the players themselves, to have a pride issue of getting beat up every day. It didn't seem like that. I'm sure the staff cares big-time, but it didn't seem the players cared as much as the staff."
    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10260/1088201-63.stm

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    Default Re: Carrasco Slams the Pirate Cluubhouse

    WV....just another reason to get Russell outta there and bring in a Lloyd McClendon type.

    The players don't care if they lose. Sad.

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    Default Re: Carrasco Slams the Pirate Cluubhouse

    Quote Originally Posted by wvkeeper View Post
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    If this is true it is a very valid reason to can Russell

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    Default Re: Carrasco Slams the Pirate Cluubhouse

    Not defending Russell here (hell, I think he should have been gone a month ago)

    But that's on the players to keep themselves motivated, if what Carrasco is saying is true.

    And let's face it, it's not a very outlandish claim.
    This many years of losing can take it's toll.

    Last year, I heard Warren Sapp talking about the Raiders in the weeks after the Richard Seymour was traded, and then said that he thought the Raiders were a playoff team.

    Sapp, said the mentality of losing is embedded deeply in the Raiders locker room.
    He said Seymour probably got there, saw the talent on the team and started thinking, "Hey we can make the playoffs." And then other guys probably said, "Playoffs? We don't do that here."

    How do you remove that element?
    ****ed if I know.
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    Default Re: Carrasco Slams the Pirate Cluubhouse

    Quote Originally Posted by Waiting for LaRoche View Post
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    Not defending Russell here (hell, I think he should have been gone a month ago)

    But that's on the players to keep themselves motivated, if what Carrasco is saying is true.

    And let's face it, it's not a very outlandish claim.
    This many years of losing can take it's toll.

    Last year, I heard Warren Sapp talking about the Raiders in the weeks after the Richard Seymour was traded, and then said that he thought the Raiders were a playoff team.

    Sapp, said the mentality of losing is embedded deeply in the Raiders locker room.
    He said Seymour probably got there, saw the talent on the team and started thinking, "Hey we can make the playoffs." And then other guys probably said, "Playoffs? We don't do that here."

    How do you remove that element?
    ****ed if I know.
    I've been repeating this but... one of the coaches jobs is to motivate, prepare and get focus from his players. There's other things as well but it's Russell's job to be uplifting when the players/clubhouse gets down. It's his job to reign in if ever there would be a case of a team that's a little too emotional. Losing can take it's toll especially on the players and in a sport like this where individual performance is very evident. It takes very little for a player playing nearly every day half of the time away from family and home for 6 months or more to get emotionally worn out from struggles, losing etc... that's where a coach steps in.

    Lloyd Mcclendon was nothing more than a ******bag that yelled. Nobody needs that. Bill Cowher was a perfect example of someone that was probably considered more of a motivator than a cerebral guy.

    The clubhouse should never get to the point where Carrasco says it's at if the coach is good at motivating and uplifting his team
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    Default Re: Carrasco Slams the Pirate Cluubhouse

    Quote Originally Posted by PittFaninVa View Post
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    If this is true it is a very valid reason to can Russell
    Agreed.

    Playing bad is one thing. Making mistakes is another.

    But not caring is just atrocious.

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    Default Re: Carrasco Slams the Pirate Cluubhouse

    Quote Originally Posted by vandelay industries View Post
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    Agreed.

    Playing bad is one thing. Making mistakes is another.

    But not caring is just atrocious.
    And not caring is one of the very things that leads to making mistakes and playing bad.
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    Default Re: Carrasco Slams the Pirate Cluubhouse

    I swear I had seen thread before where people complained when the are all doom and gloom in the clubhouse, and we were worried that they were taking the losing too hard.

    Now, we are worried they are not taking the losing serious enough.

    I think sometimes we take outside emotions to literally as to how people are feeling.

    I have a lot of ****ty days and worry about things - doesn't always reflect through my outside appearance.

    How exactly should they act to make everyone feel all warm and cozy that they are concerned?

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    Default Re: Carrasco Slams the Pirate Cluubhouse

    Quote Originally Posted by moneytalks View Post
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    I swear I had seen thread before where people complained when the are all doom and gloom in the clubhouse, and we were worried that they were taking the losing too hard.

    Now, we are worried they are not taking the losing serious enough.

    I think sometimes we take outside emotions to literally as to how people are feeling.

    I have a lot of ****ty days and worry about things - doesn't always reflect through my outside appearance.

    How exactly should they act to make everyone feel all warm and cozy that they are concerned?
    I think both are similar enough in that they are both emotions or feelings that need changed and usually need changed before they become too much of a norm in the clubhouse.

    Remember that Mike Yeo avatar you used to sport with the red circle and line through it? Because the guy was an ineffective coach with the duties he had to perform. Same thing here. It was the same thing with Michel Therrien of the Pens. Coaches can lose a team, they can uplift a team, breathe life into a team, alienate and disrupt, motivate etc... I don't know if Russell ever "had" the team but from the way they've lost games, the amount of loses the way they play on the road under Russell... I believe that Russell has lost them and at that point it's impossible to really get them back as a coach. That's when you need a new voice.

    Problem here is that anew voice might not always be a better voice or the right voice. The bottom line will be NH finding that better voice
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    Default Re: Carrasco Slams the Pirate Cluubhouse

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    I think both are similar enough in that they are both emotions or feelings that need changed and usually need changed before they become too much of a norm in the clubhouse.

    Remember that Mike Yeo avatar you used to sport with the red circle and line through it? Because the guy was an ineffective coach with the duties he had to perform. Same thing here. It was the same thing with Michel Therrien of the Pens. Coaches can lose a team, they can uplift a team, breathe life into a team, alienate and disrupt, motivate etc... I don't know if Russell ever "had" the team but from the way they've lost games, the amount of loses the way they play on the road under Russell... I believe that Russell has lost them and at that point it's impossible to really get them back as a coach. That's when you need a new voice.

    Problem here is that anew voice might not always be a better voice or the right voice. The bottom line will be NH finding that better voice
    I was speaking more about the players than JR

    As I said in a different thread... JR is not the problem, but I also agree he is not the solution either.

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    Default Re: Carrasco Slams the Pirate Cluubhouse

    Quote Originally Posted by moneytalks View Post
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    I was speaking more about the players than JR

    As I said in a different thread... JR is not the problem, but I also agree he is not the solution either.
    Losing takes it's toll and when you lose often enough and badly enough I'm sure it takes it's mental and psychological toll on the players.

    I think that everyone cares but hoplessness can set in...
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    Default Re: Carrasco Slams the Pirate Cluubhouse

    I think it's just like life in general. If a pile of things start going wrong,you either have to develop a thick skin,or you might have a nervous breakdown. Losing as much as the Pirates have,I would think, have made the players numb. If thy were mad after every loss,well you would have some mighty ****ed off guys the majority of the time,and that wouldn't be very healthy.
    Are these morons getting dumber or just louder-Mayor Quimby

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    Default Re: Carrasco Slams the Pirate Cluubhouse

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    I think both are similar enough in that they are both emotions or feelings that need changed and usually need changed before they become too much of a norm in the clubhouse.

    Remember that Mike Yeo avatar you used to sport with the red circle and line through it? Because the guy was an ineffective coach with the duties he had to perform. Same thing here. It was the same thing with Michel Therrien of the Pens. Coaches can lose a team, they can uplift a team, breathe life into a team, alienate and disrupt, motivate etc... I don't know if Russell ever "had" the team but from the way they've lost games, the amount of loses the way they play on the road under Russell... I believe that Russell has lost them and at that point it's impossible to really get them back as a coach. That's when you need a new voice.

    Problem here is that anew voice might not always be a better voice or the right voice. The bottom line will be NH finding that better voice
    As I said in another thread, Buck Showalter. Perfect example of how a manager can have an influence.

    POLITICIANS AND DIAPERS SHOULD BE CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON!

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    Default Re: Carrasco Slams the Pirate Cluubhouse

    Problem here is that anew voice might not always be a better voice or the right voice. The bottom line will be NH finding that better voice
    As I said in another thread, Buck Showalter. Perfect example of how a manager can have an influence.
    Both Kip's and Ex's comments show just hard it is to get the right match. Take Showalter for example, I've read (probably in Smizik's blog) many saying the Pirates should have hired him,however because he has had success in Baltimore,it doesn't mean he would have the same success in Pittsburgh (Ex,I know that wasn't what you were trying to say) Look at Jim Tracey,a guy I thought was a terrible fit in Pittsburgh,he went out to Colorado (and whatever you think of him) you have to give it to him,he has really turned that team around. Any manager,well most, could win with a roster like the Yankees have,but to find the right fit for a team like the Pirates probably involves a good bit of luck.
    Are these morons getting dumber or just louder-Mayor Quimby

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    Default Re: Carrasco Slams the Pirate Cluubhouse

    Quote Originally Posted by buccoray61 View Post
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    Both Kip's and Ex's comments show just hard it is to get the right match. Take Showalter for example, I've read (probably in Smizik's blog) many saying the Pirates should have hired him,however because he has had success in Baltimore,it doesn't mean he would have the same success in Pittsburgh (Ex,I know that wasn't what you were trying to say) Look at Jim Tracey,a guy I thought was a terrible fit in Pittsburgh,he went out to Colorado (and whatever you think of him) you have to give it to him,he has really turned that team around. Any manager,well most, could win with a roster like the Yankees have,but to find the right fit for a team like the Pirates probably involves a good bit of luck.
    Yes, I wasn't suggesting that Showalter should have been hired in Pgh and I know you didn't take it that way. I used him as an example to show that a manager CAN influence how his players perform. Baltimore actually had a worse record than us when he was hired and he has a 26-15 record or something with the same players since. I'm simply saying that JR isn't the answer and we need a change.

    POLITICIANS AND DIAPERS SHOULD BE CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON!

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