Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18

Thread: LeBeau's Defense Is Looking like Tomlin's 2006 Viking Defense

      
  1. #1
    Kipper's Avatar
    Status : Kipper is offline
    Rank : Legend
    Join Date : Oct 8, 2009
    Posts : 67,323
    Threads : 1817
    Last Online : Apr-25-2017 @ 08:36 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default LeBeau's Defense Is Looking like Tomlin's 2006 Viking Defense

    Name:  p1.tomlin.usp_1_.jpg
Views: 14
Size:  11.4 KB
    When the great Coaching interview debates were going on back in the 2007 Offseason there were so many variables as there should've been. The Steelers don't hire Head Coaches very often so fans in general very seldom get to discuss the topic. It was the first time since the Internet became easily accessible that legions of Steelers fans could together, discuss the hire from all corners of the globe.

    One of the debates I remember the most was towards the end when Ron Rivera was pretty much an after thought and the decision came down to Russ Grimm or Mike Tomlin for the Head Coaching job. It turned into some faux macho version of Twilight where you had "Team Grimm" and "Team Tomlin". Some fans were in favor of Tomlin simply because they didn't like Russ Grimm but in almost all cases the general defense of Mike Tomlin came down to 2 things.

    1. He's a Defensive Coach. This was used Ad nauseam simply because Bill Cowher and Chuck Noll both were Defensive Coordinators therefor it should be without saying that we continue toeing that line.

    2. Mike Tomlin had the #1 run Defense has the Vikings Defensive Coordinator. Mike Tomlin in his lone season as Defensive Coordinator (with the Minnesota Vikings) had achieved the #1 run defense in the entire NFL and by a nice margin. Run Defense and Steelers football are like hand and glove or Roger Goodell and ******bag.

    Fast Forward 4 seasons into the Future. 2010 Pittsburgh Steelers. Just like in 2006 when everyone was pointing at that #1 run defense accomplished by Mike Tomlin with the Vikings, we are seeing almost mirrored results, except that right now, we aren't exactly looking at just one aspect of the Defense with a narrow mind as we did in 2006, we are starting to see everything else that follows.

    One thing that I can remember arguing against in 2006 when "Team Tomlin" was using his Run Defense has a means to catapult Mike Tomlin into Head Coach lead was that the Vikings run defense was that good because their pass defense was lousy. Naturally the excuse makers came out, perhaps some mud slinging and flame wars ensued however now that all of Steelers Nation and the National Media is getting a taste of it, perhaps there's some similarities. Now I'm not going to get into schemes. I know that Tomlin ran a 4-3 Tampa-2. I know that Dick LeBeau runs a 3-4 Zone Defense however I'm discussing more of the end result similarities.

    There should be no dispute that Mike Tomlin has a hand in Defensive scheming and game planning. That's what he knows best. I expect Tomlin's stamp to be on the Defense, on the secondary. Those were the aspects of the game in which he coached at the NFL level. I wouldn't expect much input from him into what Bruce Arians does (good or bad I suppose). With that said looking at the 2010 Pittsburgh Steelers Defense it looks more like Mike Tomlin's 2006 Vikings defense in results than what we have been accustomed to from Dick LeBeau. Seeing a defense designed to stop the West Coast styled dinks and dunks be heavily exposed to them just leaves me scratching my head.

    Nobody ran the ball against either Defense. Both teams witnessed the lowest amounts of carries per game against. One could argue that these teams were so good against the run that you'd be stupid to run against them. Perhaps or maybe the run was abandoned to exploit the Pass defense?

    The 2010 Pass Defense just like Tomlin's 2006 Vikings Pass Defense stinks. Teams aren't running the ball on the Steelers because they don't have to. They are attacking our weakness which is Pass Defense. This is what occurred in 2006 under Mike Tomlin. We can all sit around, drink plenty-o-beer and debate "why" but ultimately this is an "issue" that needs fixed but who can fix it? We have possibly the league's Best Defensive Coordinator who is a legend. We aren't firing Mike Tomlin. The Secondary personnel is the same personnel that took us through the 2008 season and to a Super Bowl XLIII victory. If anything, the defensive personnel is better now than it was in 2008 with the addition of Larry Timmons over Larry Foote.

    Whatever it is that is wrong with this Pass Defense I'd start looking at whatever it is that Mike Tomlin has put his stamp on first because the similarities in Statistical results between his 2006 Vikings Defense and the 2010 Steelers Defense are too eerily similar to disregard
    Last edited by Kipper; Feb-27-2015 at 08:40 AM.
    The Standard Is The Standard and The Pittsburgh Sports Forum Is The Standard


  2. #2
    LasVegasGuy's Avatar
    Status : LasVegasGuy is offline
    Rank : Banned
    Join Date : Oct 11, 2009
    Location : Living on the Sun, Nevada
    Posts : 2,076
    Threads : 60
    Last Online : Jan-05-2012 @ 12:19 PM

    Default Re: LeBeau's Defense Is Looking like Tomlin's 2006 Viking Defense

    Good job, Kip. Tomlin couldn't fix it in Minny and have little faith he can fix it here. Just a matter of time before we are ranked #32 against the pass just like the 2006 Vikings.

    At least Tomlin is consistent. You have to give him that.

  3. #3
    Stone's Avatar
    Status : Stone is offline
    Rank : Major Leaguer
    Join Date : Nov 9, 2009
    Location : NE Ohio
    Posts : 1,243
    Threads : 91
    Last Online : Sep-20-2012 @ 11:34 AM

    Default Re: LeBeau's Defense Is Looking like Tomlin's 2006 Viking Defense

    Thanks Kip for providing some fact and history behind what I have been seeing but couldn't verbalize well.

  4. #4
    BlackNGoldRules's Avatar
    Status : BlackNGoldRules is offline
    Rank : Hall Of Famer
    Join Date : Nov 9, 2009
    Location : Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, United States
    Posts : 7,065
    Threads : 126
    Last Online : Sep-22-2012 @ 11:27 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: LeBeau's Defense Is Looking like Tomlin's 2006 Viking Defense

    I remember this was debated quite a bit by all of us Steeler fans back then when Tomlin was first hired. He was a D coordinator for only one season and the overall defensive numbers left a lot to be desired from that one season. When he was first asked about whether or not he was going to implement his 4-3 style of defense or let Lebeau continue with this 3-4 scheme, Tomlin said he was sticking with the 3-4 based on the personnel we had. We knew though that it would only be a matter of time before Tomlin would start implementing some of his own defensive philosophies into Lebeau's schemes. Yes, the Vikes had an awesome run defense that year and an awful pass defense. They also went 6-10 giving up a lot of points in the process. They were 4-2 at one point and went 2-8 in their last 10 games. If you look at the stats from his defense that year, the majority of their points allowed and pass yards allowed happened in the 2nd half of the season. Sound familiar? First 6 games, their opponents were scoring in the teens against them. Their last 10 games, all but 2 of their opponents scored 20 or more points against them. Last year, this team had a second half collapse on defense. Maybe it is just a coincidence, but the one year he was D coordinator his defense in Minnesota went through a similar collapse during the season. Could this be more proof that he has his hand more in this defense now? This year, the first 5 games we gave up 17 points or less in each game. The last 4 games, we've given up 20 or more points every game. This just seems to be another interesting parallel to his 2006 defense and to what our defense went through last season.
    Last edited by BlackNGoldRules; Nov-15-2010 at 01:23 PM.

  5. #5
    Stone's Avatar
    Status : Stone is offline
    Rank : Major Leaguer
    Join Date : Nov 9, 2009
    Location : NE Ohio
    Posts : 1,243
    Threads : 91
    Last Online : Sep-20-2012 @ 11:34 AM

    Default Re: LeBeau's Defense Is Looking like Tomlin's 2006 Viking Defense

    Les is really going to hate all this logic!

  6. #6
    fezziwig's Avatar
    Status : fezziwig is offline
    Rank : All-Star
    Join Date : Nov 3, 2009
    Posts : 2,236
    Threads : 60
    Last Online : May-22-2017 @ 08:56 AM

    Default Re: LeBeau's Defense Is Looking like Tomlin's 2006 Viking Defense

    With seeing the above results, it's no wonder he keeps Arians too.

  7. #7
    Les's Avatar
    Status : Les is offline
    Rank : Legend
    Join Date : Oct 10, 2009
    Location : Secane,Pa.
    Posts : 10,207
    Threads : 48
    Last Online : Jul-04-2017 @ 07:08 AM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: LeBeau's Defense Is Looking like Tomlin's 2006 Viking Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Stone View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Les is really going to hate all this logic!
    Don't bring me into your bull**** unless I comment on this thread.You go ahead and keep walking that fine line though,slick.You already have at least 1 member of management that you've ****ed off.

  8. #8
    Stone's Avatar
    Status : Stone is offline
    Rank : Major Leaguer
    Join Date : Nov 9, 2009
    Location : NE Ohio
    Posts : 1,243
    Threads : 91
    Last Online : Sep-20-2012 @ 11:34 AM

    Default Re: LeBeau's Defense Is Looking like Tomlin's 2006 Viking Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Les View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Don't bring me into your bull**** unless I comment on this thread.You go ahead and keep walking that fine line though,slick.You already have at least 1 member of management that you've ****ed off.
    That seems to be easier to do with some of you than scoring on the Steelers in the 4th quarter.

  9. #9
    LasVegasGuy's Avatar
    Status : LasVegasGuy is offline
    Rank : Banned
    Join Date : Oct 11, 2009
    Location : Living on the Sun, Nevada
    Posts : 2,076
    Threads : 60
    Last Online : Jan-05-2012 @ 12:19 PM

    Default Re: LeBeau's Defense Is Looking like Tomlin's 2006 Viking Defense

    As much as I would like to believe Tomlin is tinkering with the defense I just can't see it. I know the stats would suggest that he is but why would Lebeau, who is a proven commodity in this league, allow it? If indeed, Tomlin is forcing himself onto Lebeau and ****ing all this up then what is Lebeau's reason for staying? It isn't like he wouldn't have a job somewhere else in 5 minutes after leaving the Steelers.

  10. #10
    LasVegasGuy's Avatar
    Status : LasVegasGuy is offline
    Rank : Banned
    Join Date : Oct 11, 2009
    Location : Living on the Sun, Nevada
    Posts : 2,076
    Threads : 60
    Last Online : Jan-05-2012 @ 12:19 PM

    Default Re: LeBeau's Defense Is Looking like Tomlin's 2006 Viking Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Stone View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    That seems to be easier to do with some of you than scoring on the Steelers in the 4th quarter.
    I don't know the Steelers are pretty easy to score on in the 4th quarter

  11. #11
    Stone's Avatar
    Status : Stone is offline
    Rank : Major Leaguer
    Join Date : Nov 9, 2009
    Location : NE Ohio
    Posts : 1,243
    Threads : 91
    Last Online : Sep-20-2012 @ 11:34 AM

    Default Re: LeBeau's Defense Is Looking like Tomlin's 2006 Viking Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by LasVegasGuy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    As much as I would like to believe Tomlin is tinkering with the defense I just can't see it. I know the stats would suggest that he is but why would Lebeau, who is a proven commodity in this league, allow it? If indeed, Tomlin is forcing himself onto Lebeau and ****ing all this up then what is Lebeau's reason for staying? It isn't like he wouldn't have a job somewhere else in 5 minutes after leaving the Steelers.
    Tomlin is his boss, his alternative is to "quit". Nobody "quits" in the NFL. You may see him retire after this year though.

  12. #12
    BlackNGoldRules's Avatar
    Status : BlackNGoldRules is offline
    Rank : Hall Of Famer
    Join Date : Nov 9, 2009
    Location : Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, United States
    Posts : 7,065
    Threads : 126
    Last Online : Sep-22-2012 @ 11:27 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: LeBeau's Defense Is Looking like Tomlin's 2006 Viking Defense

    Those stats that Kipper provided also show how much more of a passing league it is today than it was just 4 years ago. This pass defense is giving up 252 yards per game and is ranked 26th while his 2006 pass defense gave up 238 yards per game and was ranked dead last. So, it's even more important in today's game to have a good pass defense since teams are generally throwing the ball more now.

  13. #13
    bdeff's Avatar
    Status : bdeff is offline
    Rank : All-Star
    Join Date : Oct 15, 2009
    Location : Truth or Consequences, NM
    Posts : 2,341
    Threads : 164
    Last Online : Apr-10-2015 @ 09:10 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: LeBeau's Defense Is Looking like Tomlin's 2006 Viking Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by LasVegasGuy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I don't know the Steelers are pretty easy to score on in the 4th quarter

    LOL maybe they are "DTF" or something.

    Too soon???
    "ARRRGGHHH THERE WILL BE MUTTON TONIGHT!" Said the Troll

  14. #14
    Kipper's Avatar
    Status : Kipper is offline
    Rank : Legend
    Join Date : Oct 8, 2009
    Posts : 67,323
    Threads : 1817
    Last Online : Apr-25-2017 @ 08:36 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: LeBeau's Defense Is Looking like Tomlin's 2006 Viking Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by LasVegasGuy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    As much as I would like to believe Tomlin is tinkering with the defense I just can't see it. I know the stats would suggest that he is but why would Lebeau, who is a proven commodity in this league, allow it? If indeed, Tomlin is forcing himself onto Lebeau and ****ing all this up then what is Lebeau's reason for staying? It isn't like he wouldn't have a job somewhere else in 5 minutes after leaving the Steelers.
    Because LeBeau is a good easy guy to deal with and as someone who has coached before, perhaps he understands working with a coach and how it's done.

    Head Coaches and coordinators always collaborate. Always happens, every sport. How Tomlin's input defensively affects things is anyone's guess. I really don't know, but you'd be living in a fairy world riding around on unicorns if you think Tomlin doesn't have input on the Defense and LeBeau isn't and wouldn't be open to it
    The Standard Is The Standard and The Pittsburgh Sports Forum Is The Standard


  15. #15
    Kipper's Avatar
    Status : Kipper is offline
    Rank : Legend
    Join Date : Oct 8, 2009
    Posts : 67,323
    Threads : 1817
    Last Online : Apr-25-2017 @ 08:36 PM
    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: LeBeau's Defense Is Looking like Tomlin's 2006 Viking Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by fezziwig View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    With seeing the above results, it's no wonder he keeps Arians too.
    Scary thing is that the offensive numbers aren't terrible. Problem is that in order to get an end statistic result, the offense has been very inconsistent.

    Im really most concerned about the pass defense. Offense is really good enough to win a SB. you don't need a great Offense to win a SB, this Pass defense though can't make it to the SB as is. Defense wins and gets you to and a championship. Right now, this pass defense won't cut it
    The Standard Is The Standard and The Pittsburgh Sports Forum Is The Standard


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •