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Thread: Hall of Fame List

      
  1. #1
    LeeFoo's Avatar
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    Default Hall of Fame List

    Who do you guys like for the HOF from this list?

    From previous years
    Bert Blyleven
    Roberto Alomar
    Jack Morris
    Barry Larkin
    Lee Smith
    Edgar Martinez
    Tim Raines
    Mark McGwire
    Alan Trammell
    Fred McGriff
    Don Mattingly
    Dave Parker
    Dale Murphy
    Harold Baines

    First time on the ballot:
    Carlos Baerga
    Jeff Bagwell
    Bret Boone
    Kevin Brown
    John Franco
    Juan Gonzalez
    Marquis Grissom
    Lenny Harris
    Bobby Higginson
    Charles Johnson
    Al Leiter
    Tino Martinez
    Raul Mondesi
    John Olerud
    Rafael Palmeiro
    Kirk Rueter
    Benito Santiago
    B.J. Surhoff
    Larry Walker


    ==========
    My votes are for:

    Bert Blyleven
    Roberto Alomar
    Barry Larkin
    Jeff Bagwell


    The "Just missing and should get in eventually" list are:
    Tim Raines
    John Franco
    Lee Smith
    Larry Walker


    My "Sorry but you blew it, sniffed and injected it " list is:
    Mark McGwire
    Juan Gonzalez
    Dave Parker
    Rafael Palmeiro

    And my "Why are YOU on this list" list is:
    Bret Boone
    Lenny Harris
    Bobby Higginson
    Raul Mondesi (just because)

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Hall of Fame List

    Lee Smith and Jack Morris should be in IMO.

    McGuire should be but the roids thing kills him.

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    LeeFoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hall of Fame List

    Jack Morris never seemed Warren Spahn or Bob Gibson-like, but if Niekro and Rice are in, I guess he could go in, also. He appeared in only 5 All Star games and never finished higher than 3rd in Cy Young voting. If not for his playoff heroics, I doubt he'd be in the HOF conversation, imho. To me, a HOFer wins AT LEAST one Cy Young and preferably more than one. Compare him to Warren Spahn, for instance, a true HOFer (1 Cy Young, 4 TSN pitcher of the year awards, perennial All Star participant).

    I feel the same about Alan Trammell. Very good for a very long time, but never great, imho. Trammell finished 2nd in MVP once and never higher than 7th otherwise. To me, a HOFer wins AT LEAST one MVP and preferably more than one. Trammell also was in only six All Star games. Compare him to Ripken (the definition of HOF) who won 2 MVPs and was a perennial All Star participant.

    We need to get away from the Hall of the Very Good voting, imho. However, I'd vote for Morris over Trammell, if it came down to it.

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    Default Re: Hall of Fame List

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeFoo View Post
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    Who do you guys like for the HOF from this list?

    From previous years
    [HIGH-LIGHT]Bert Blyleven
    Roberto Alomar[/HIGH-LIGHT]
    Jack Morris
    Barry Larkin
    Lee Smith
    Edgar Martinez
    [HIGH-LIGHT]Tim Raines
    Mark McGwire[/HIGH-LIGHT]
    Alan Trammell
    Fred McGriff
    Don Mattingly
    Dave Parker
    Dale Murphy
    Harold Baines

    First time on the ballot:
    Carlos Baerga
    [HIGH-LIGHT]Jeff Bagwell[/HIGH-LIGHT]
    Bret Boone
    Kevin Brown
    John Franco
    Juan Gonzalez
    Marquis Grissom
    Lenny Harris
    Bobby Higginson
    Charles Johnson
    Al Leiter
    Tino Martinez
    Raul Mondesi
    John Olerud
    Rafael Palmeiro
    Kirk Rueter
    Benito Santiago
    B.J. Surhoff
    Larry Walker

    Even though I think Bagwell was a roids guy, he hasn't been officially linked (to my knowledge anyway) to it.

    The highlighted players, IMO, deserve to be in.

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    Default Re: Hall of Fame List

    Nobody on the first time list with the exception of John Franco, but that's iffy.

    Of the previous candidates, I think Blyleven, Lee Smith, Don Mattingly.

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    Default Re: Hall of Fame List

    Blyleven should have been in years ago. Alomar and Larkin should have been obvious picks last year, but the voters have trouble seeing anything other than offensive counting numbers. Alomar has a case as a top 5 second baseman of all time, and Larkin makes the top 10 for shortstops in just about every offensive category. Tim Raines belongs in as well. Compare him to Lou Brock who was a played a similar style and I think Raines is better. From the list of new players Bagwell seems really obvious. Of all the first basemen in the HOF there are only 2 with a higher career WAR than Bagwell. I feel like voters may miss on him, though, since his game wasn't just about raw HR and RBI totals. There's also a steroid taint, but nobody has ever really linked him in a concrete way.

    Edgar Martinez, Alan Trammell, and Fred McGriff all have arguments as well, but I'm more on the fence with those three.

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    Default Re: Hall of Fame List

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeFoo View Post
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    Jack Morris never seemed Warren Spahn or Bob Gibson-like, but if Niekro and Rice are in, I guess he could go in, also. He appeared in only 5 All Star games and never finished higher than 3rd in Cy Young voting. If not for his playoff heroics, I doubt he'd be in the HOF conversation, imho. [HIGH-LIGHT]To me, a HOFer wins AT LEAST one Cy Young[/HIGH-LIGHT] and preferably more than one. Compare him to Warren Spahn, for instance, a true HOFer (1 Cy Young, 4 TSN pitcher of the year awards, perennial All Star participant).

    I feel the same about Alan Trammell. Very good for a very long time, but never great, imho. Trammell finished 2nd in MVP once and never higher than 7th otherwise. [HIGH-LIGHT]To me, a HOFer wins AT LEAST one MVP[/HIGH-LIGHT] and preferably more than one. Trammell also was in only six All Star games. Compare him to Ripken (the definition of HOF) who won 2 MVPs and was a perennial All Star participant.

    We need to get away from the Hall of the Very Good voting, imho. However, I'd vote for Morris over Trammell, if it came down to it.


    Then to you, Juan Marichal, Eddie Matthews, Lou Brock, Duke Snider and Al Kaline are not HOF'ers.


    Marichal averaged 22 wins for 7 years in the 1960's, but lost out on the CY during his best years to Koufax 3 times, Bob Gibson and Tom Seaver.

    Kaline was an 18 time all star, again, 18. With career avg of .297. 399 HR's, 3,000 hits, as well as 10 gold gloves. Not only is Kaline deserving, but he was in on his first ballot with 88% of the vote. At the time (1980) just the tenth man in on his 1st ballot.

    Duke Snider had more homers and RBI in the 1950's than any other player in that decade.

    Lou Brock has 3,000 career hits, batted just under .300 lifetime and in 1974 stole 118 bases. Lost the MVP that year to Steve Garvey. Was the all time steals leader until one Rickey Henderson came along.

    Eddie Matthews is the only 3rd baseman other than Mike Schmidt to hit 500 career HR's. (can't count ARod as the first 10 yrs of his career he played SS)

    Let's remember, too often a league MVP and Cy Young goes to the best player on the best team. Some of the above also suffered from playing in such great era's, that even in their best statistical years, they were outdone by another.

    While MVP's and Cy Young awards are nice on a HOF resume, they are certainly not necessary.

    Others without your credentials to be in the hall include:

    Nolan Ryan, Ralph Kiner, Bill Dickey, Johnny Mize, Carlton Fisk.

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    Default Re: Hall of Fame List

    I can see merit in each and everyone on the first list. The second list makes me feel my age. Bagwell sticks out though. I have seen him play many times.

    I remember, on some days in Cleveland, seeing McGuire, Henderson, Hershiser and believe it or not, Jeff Treadway. When I was near them, they were even bigger than when they were on tv.You would think they were all on droids and could have participated in that cartoon movie with Michael Jordan.

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    Default Re: Hall of Fame List

    I forgot to mention that Lenny Harris might be the worst player ever to make the HOF ballot. I have no idea how he made the cut.

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    Default Re: Hall of Fame List

    He is the all time pinch hits leader. Maybe its for his 2 seasons as the Nats hitting coach.

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    LeeFoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hall of Fame List

    Then to you, Juan Marichal, Eddie Matthews, Lou Brock, Duke Snider and Al Kaline are not HOF'ers.
    I mentioned perennial All Star later in my paragraphs, but left it out as a qualification. My bad. Good catch ( pun intended ).

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    Default Re: Hall of Fame List

    JeffK....who is that a pic of in your posts?

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    Default Re: Hall of Fame List

    [QUOTE=LeeFoo;134125]Who do you guys like for the HOF from this list?

    From previous years
    [HIGH-LIGHT]Bert Blyleven
    [/HIGH-LIGHT][HIGH-LIGHT]Roberto Alomar
    [/HIGH-LIGHT]Jack Morris
    [HIGH-LIGHT]Barry Larkin
    [/HIGH-LIGHT]Lee Smith
    Edgar Martinez
    Tim Raines
    Mark McGwire
    Alan Trammell
    [HIGH-LIGHT]Fred McGriff
    [/HIGH-LIGHT]Don Mattingly
    Dave Parker
    Dale Murphy
    Harold Baines

    First time on the ballot:
    Carlos Baerga
    Jeff Bagwell
    Bret Boone
    Kevin Brown
    John Franco
    Juan Gonzalez
    Marquis Grissom
    Lenny Harris
    Bobby Higginson
    Charles Johnson
    Al Leiter
    Tino Martinez
    Raul Mondesi
    John Olerud
    Rafael Palmeiro
    Kirk Rueter
    Benito Santiago
    B.J. Surhoff
    Larry Walker


    ==========


    There are a couple more that I think should eventually get in, but those 4 should get in this year. Down the road I think Bagwell, Murphy, and Lee Smith should get in.

  15. #15
    jeffkingsmustache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hall of Fame List

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeFoo View Post
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    JeffK....who is that a pic of in your posts?
    It's Jordan Staal from when he was arrested along with a few others at his brother Eric's bachelor party in Minny a few years ago.

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