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Thread: It must be trail of tears week or something..

      
  1. #16
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    Default Re: It must be trail of tears week or something..

    Quote Originally Posted by Les View Post
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    I've watched maybe a handful of games since.
    Same here. I do not recall the last game I saw in person at PNC Park. I'm also now starting to notice that I'm watching less and less on tv as the years pass.

    I'm just tired of all the talk. That's all I hear from our "new" and "improved" regime and the local media...the same old bull**** that I've heard for the last 17 years now.

    Start showing me and I will start opening up my wallet.
    Last edited by Pittsburgh; Nov-04-2009 at 11:35 PM.

  2. #17
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    Default Re: It must be trail of tears week or something..

    Come on people!!!!! Bob Nutting has only owned the team for 3 ****ing seasons!!! You are all ready to throw HIM under the bus for the 14 previous years. He's already made some great moves with a new GM and president. You all expect things to get turned around at the drop of a hat. It just doesn't work like that. Instead of just looking on the surface, how about looking deeper. Look at our minor leagues now compared to '07. We're now finally starting to make an effort to find Latino talent.....a major piece of the puzzle we've lacked. But that's not good enough for you. You want to win the Word Series next week.

  3. #18
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    Default Re: It must be trail of tears week or something..

    Quote Originally Posted by El Sid View Post
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    Come on people!!!!! Bob Nutting has only owned the team for 3 ****ing seasons!!! You are all ready to throw HIM under the bus for the 14 previous years. He's already made some great moves with a new GM and president. You all expect things to get turned around at the drop of a hat. It just doesn't work like that. Instead of just looking on the surface, how about looking deeper. Look at our minor leagues now compared to '07. We're now finally starting to make an effort to find Latino talent.....a major piece of the puzzle we've lacked. But that's not good enough for you. You want to win the Word Series next week.
    The only way the Pirates win another world series is if it's some major fluke. It's got to be a 1980 miracle on ice type of fluke at this point.

    This league is setup for 8 teams - the Yankees obviously are first, and no one can compete with them, unless they suck it up. Just look at the salaries per team:

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/salaries

    The Mets, Red Sux, Cubs, Braves, Dodgers, Angels, and Phillies are next in the pecking order, as those teams usually hover around 100 to 130 million depending on their talent levels.

    The teams under 85 million are pretty much just feeder teams for the teams that can afford to more than double them in spending for talent. This is why Baseball is the worst of all the sports. It's only setup for major market teams, and i'm more in favor of the league downsizing to 12 teams, than I am supporting it with 30 and watching this nonsense unfold year after year.

    **** the Yankees. **** THEM!

  4. #19
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    Default Re: It must be trail of tears week or something..

    Ok...

    This is for everyone in this thread. Because I read and a few times

    First off..

    1. Randy Lerner is an awful owner. The Browns have done nothing but hire and fire coaches and GM's since they came back into the league and have had failure after failure after failure worth of seasons, drafts and talent accumulation. Lerner has been approving ALL of this. The most the Browns have gotten were an obscure fluke season in 2002, that's it. Every owner says that they "want to win". Because of that, you can throw aside any belief or notion from an owner, they say the same things, guys like Lerner keep getting the same results. He can ***** all he wants and act like he cares but he's not made a good decision since the Browns came back into the NFL. At some point you need to do something right or shut up and stop blaming everyone else.

    To some, they might think that "money" is the cure all. If you believe this, you are an *******. Daniel Snyder has been throwing around money for years, trying to find ways to buy a championship and what has he gotten in return? Continuous ****ty teams, a revolving door of coaches and players, and absolutely no stability anywhere in that franchise outside of himself. The Redskins as is, have no future. They have no leaders offensively and defensively. Jim Zorn most likely isn't a good coach but his owner hasn't helped surround him with viable talent to work as a functioning team on both sides of the ball.

    The goal to winning in ANY sport is competent building. It's not payroll figures (except for a terribly run sport like Baseball, but even then you still need to build), it's strong scouting, strong drafting, having a cohesive long term plan, strong talent evaluations, ability to hire the right people for various positions of management and coaching. In regards to the Pirates THOSE were and always have been the main factors holding back that team. $100 million dollars and a retard in charge of spending it will never get a team to achieve much. What the Pirates have been doing the past 2 seasons is along the lines of what the Steelers always do, what the Penguins have done since 2002-03. Build through the draft, put your marbles into the draft, let the youth develop, show some patience with struggles and build around that as a base for the future as opposed to the Dan Snyder failure of finding garbage vet here or there and overpaying them, or the Cleveland Browns version of Dave Littlefield, drafting ****ty quarterbacks (pitchers for Littlefield). Al Davis is in his own world.

    The problem with teams like Cleveland, Oakland, Washington in the NFL and to an extent the Pirates from 1992-2007 is that they refused to deal with the accepted growing pains of a proper rebuilding. If you want to be good and you suck presently with very little hope looking into the future, you need to tear that ****er down and start from scratch and start a new plan for the future. You need to allow players you draft to develop, you need the "team" to develop as just that - a team. You need to allow the coaches the proper time to teach and implement and get these various aspects that help build future winners in place and learned. Those teams/owners/gm's refuse/refused to do that and for it, they have received nothing but mediocre to ****ty results with most having little to no bright future ahead of them. Out of all of them mentioned, only the Pirates have a glimmer of a chance now because they finally decided "**** it, let's tear this **** down and start from the bottom. If the Pens and Steelers can have success with it, let's try it as well". The Browns haven't done this. The Redskins haven't, The Raiders haven't. I've got a lot more respect for a team like Kansas city that is most likely going to struggle for a few years, play some awful ball but are at least rebuilding properly, through drafting, accumulating a lot of young talent and allow those guys the time to develop through their struggles than I do for a team like the Browns who simply just don't ****ing get it

  5. #20
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    Default Re: It must be trail of tears week or something..

    Quote Originally Posted by foslrock View Post
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    The only way the Pirates win another world series is if it's some major fluke. It's got to be a 1980 miracle on ice type of fluke at this point.

    This league is setup for 8 teams - the Yankees obviously are first, and no one can compete with them, unless they suck it up. Just look at the salaries per team:

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/salaries

    The Mets, Red Sux, Cubs, Braves, Dodgers, Angels, and Phillies are next in the pecking order, as those teams usually hover around 100 to 130 million depending on their talent levels.

    The teams under 85 million are pretty much just feeder teams for the teams that can afford to more than double them in spending for talent. This is why Baseball is the worst of all the sports. It's only setup for major market teams, and i'm more in favor of the league downsizing to 12 teams, than I am supporting it with 30 and watching this nonsense unfold year after year.

    **** the Yankees. **** THEM!
    You are.... absolutely right. Beyond that, only the 2003 Marlins in present years have won a World Series with a payroll under $50 million. Before that it was I think the 2002 Angels with a $62.2 million payroll BUT at that time, they were ranked in the top 15 of payroll in MLB.

    Basically if you aren't in that top percentage f baseball payroll, then forget your chances of winning the World Series. MLB is a horribly run sports. It's not even the complete fault of the small market owners. They are screwed either way. the only way to change the way MLB operates is for a strike to occur and there's too much power (large market owners) that are receiving far too much to allow that to happen

  6. #21
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    Default Re: It must be trail of tears week or something..

    Quote Originally Posted by El Sid View Post
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    Come on people!!!!! Bob Nutting has only owned the team for 3 ****ing seasons!!! You are all ready to throw HIM under the bus for the 14 previous years. He's already made some great moves with a new GM and president. You all expect things to get turned around at the drop of a hat. It just doesn't work like that. Instead of just looking on the surface, how about looking deeper. Look at our minor leagues now compared to '07. We're now finally starting to make an effort to find Latino talent.....a major piece of the puzzle we've lacked. But that's not good enough for you. You want to win the Word Series next week.
    Outside of my post, this is actually a very reality based and sensible post.

    You are correct. Bob Nutting has only been owner since 2007. He's only had the votes within the board since then for majority control. Before that, for ALL of those other years outside of 93-96 it was Kevin McClatchy that ran things, or ran the ship under the sea. Fans love to give Mcclatchy a pat on the back for getting PNC Park built, then look at the Nuttings who while holding a lot of shares in ownership never had the same vote abilities and control as McClatchy did. Kevin McClatchy is and always has been the guy that ran the Pittsburgh Pirates into the ground. The past 2 years is the first honest attempt at truly turning this organization around and it's only occurred because McClatchy was finally forced out and Bob Nutting took over and cleaned house of all of McClatchy's poorly approved decisions, the main one allowing himself to be CEO of a sport he never knew anything about. Management was completely overhauled, the scouting department is twice as large as it once was, the spending on what is most meaningful for any team in any sport and especially baseball - the draft has increased tremendously, international payroll has tripled but most importantly a plan has been put in place. A plan that most people don't understand, can't comprehend, choose to ignorantly ignore BUT its goal is to accomplish the same thing a team like the Pittsburgh Penguins who were about as bad as any team in any sport was from 2002-2006 did or what the Steelers annually do... Build from the draft and allow that to be your future, not old washed up has beens who want paid for what they did when they didn't have badly injured backs, knees and whatever else etc...

    It took the Penguins a good 5 years to turn it around with a proper rebuilding plan. It took the Steelers a great number of years to turn around a streak of terrible personnel, draft and scouting decisions in the 1980's to the point where that 1992 team was largely built on a younger foundation with reliable vets like Woodson and Dawson.

    If you want to do it right and everything is broke. Start from scratch, accept the verbal beatings from fans that don't understand the concepts of how to properly build teams, don't understand what a real rebuilding is. Accept a few years worth of an awful product but know that it's being done for a brighter future. Too many owners/gm's simply can't allow their ego's to take a hit like that

  7. #22
    Pittsburgh's Avatar
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    Default Re: It must be trail of tears week or something..

    Quote Originally Posted by foslrock View Post
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    The only way the Pirates win another world series is if it's some major fluke. It's got to be a 1980 miracle on ice type of fluke at this point.
    Hell, at this point, I'm just looking for a respectable baseball team. Maybe finishing above .500 for once? Maybe just seeing this organization go up instead of down every year? Maybe expect more than fireworks and plastic bobbleheads? That would be nice for once.

    Until that starts to occur, I'm guessing PNC Park will continue to hover around 28th in overall attendance. It's understandable, I think the majority of people in this city are taking the wait and see approach. Apparently they want to start seeing some results before they start spending money.
    Just a guess.
    Last edited by Pittsburgh; Nov-05-2009 at 10:13 AM.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: It must be trail of tears week or something..

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittsburgh View Post
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    Hell, at this point, I'm just looking for a respectable baseball team. Maybe finishing above .500 for once? Maybe just seeing this organization go up instead of down every year? Maybe expect more than fireworks and plastic bobbleheads? That would be nice for once.

    Until that starts to occur, I'm guessing PNC Park will continue to hover around 28th in overall attendance. It's understandable, I think the majority of people in this city are taking the wait and see approach. Apparently they want to start seeing some results before they start spending money.
    Just a guess.
    It's a rational guess, especially considering that most people that could be "would be" fans don't have a single clue as to what all has to be done for a competitive team to be fielded. All the see are $$$$$ and W-L in the newspaper and that's it. So yeah, it's like anything. If you stink, nobody shows up. the Penguins witnessed that in the early to mid 2000's when they were struggling to get 10,000 people into Igloo. Same goes for the Pirates. Just like the Pens though, you start winning, showing some promise and the bandwagon crowd will be there ready to jump

  9. #24
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    Default Re: It must be trail of tears week or something..

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    the Penguins witnessed that in the early to mid 2000's when they were struggling to get 10,000 people into Igloo
    I would know. There are people sitting around me now who I never saw at the games in the early 2000's. Unlike Penguins fans, I really can't blame Pirate fans for staying away until things start looking up. Going 17 straight years of playing under .500 ball is a little different than what the Penguins had to go through during the early 2000's.

    Personally, I don't even consider the people who are staying away from PNC bandwagon fans or less knowledgable from those who claim to know what in the hell that organization is doing. They just don't want to spend their money on a ****ty product that has been ****ty for far too long. I know people who dumped their seasons after watching decades of baseball. They simply got fed up with dishing out the cash every year.

    If people want to go to the games and spend their hard earned cash, more power to them. I wish them all the best and I hope they have a blast. At the same time, I always laugh at the people who are quick to scream bandwagon or unfaithful at those who choose not to attend the games. I mean, I could sit here and call those same people gullible moron's who don't know the first thing about baseball. I guess it works both ways, I just choose to be classy about it and wish them good luck and have a fun time at the park.

    Anyways, I hope they start turning a once proud and respected franchise around and at least get them going in the right direction.
    Last edited by Pittsburgh; Nov-05-2009 at 03:54 PM.

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