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Thread: Joe Sheehan on the Pirates Off Season

      
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    Viper
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    Default Joe Sheehan on the Pirates Off Season

    Joe Sheehan who likely knows more about baseball than Buster Olney and clearly knows more about the Pirates than him, surprisingly doesn't share Olney's view on Overbay and Diaz.

    I think the Pirates' spate of signings this month, bringing in Lyle Overbay, Matt Diaz and Scott Olsen, is entirely about getting the payroll to some unstated minimum to keep the MLBPA off their backs. I have absolutely no proof of this, but the other possibility -- that the Pirates think paying Lyle Overbay five million dollars to play baseball for them is a productive use of their time and money -- is too ridiculous to consider. It can't be about trying to win to get people energized, because Lyle Overbay doesn't change your fortunes in that regard.

    Overbay would be a bad signing for a good team desperate for a left-handed-hitting first baseman to complete their roster. Since turning 30, Overbay has hit .255/.344/.427 with about 15 homers a year and a 420/242 K/BB. He hasn't hit more than .270 in that time. His strikeout rate and K/BB went kablooey last year, an awful sign for a middling 33-year-old. He has a good defensive reputation and the numbers match that.

    The same thing applies to Matt Diaz. Diaz is a useful fourth outfielder on a team that lists to the left a bit and can get Diaz off the field in the seventh inning with a lead. He's also not someone whose services need to be guaranteed past the next payday. Giving him two years commits a 40-man roster spot to someone who, coming off a .302 OBP, really should be an NRI (non-roster invitee).

    The Pirates non-tendered Lastings Milledge and signed Matt Diaz, and that sequence makes about as much sense as what the Cards did at shortstop. I'm telling you, it has to be about the money: the two signings boosted the 2011 payroll by 20%!

    Picking up Rodriguez was a good idea. The Pirates would have been better served by taking two other guys like him in the Rule 5 draft rather than committing time, money and roster spots to Overbay and Diaz.

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    Default Re: Joe Sheehan on the Pirates Off Season

    Conspiracy theories abound.
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    Default Re: Joe Sheehan on the Pirates Off Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Viper View Post
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    Joe Sheehan who likely knows more about baseball than Buster Olney and clearly knows more about the Pirates than him, surprisingly doesn't share Olney's view on Overbay and Diaz.
    I don't think these signings have anything to do with upping payroll. Olsen isn't going to make much and Doumit is probably going to be removed from the roster somehow which will offset Overbay. With the salary they shed at last years trading deadline their payroll is still going to be minuscule.

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    Default Re: Joe Sheehan on the Pirates Off Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Viper View Post
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    but the other possibility -- that the Pirates think paying Lyle Overbay five million dollars to play baseball for them is a productive use of their time and money -- is too ridiculous to consider. It can't be about trying to win to get people energized, because Lyle Overbay doesn't change your fortunes in that regard.
    ....however I do agree with this statement

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    Default Re: Joe Sheehan on the Pirates Off Season

    While I won't agree that Joe Sheehan knows anymore about baseball than the next guy, Sheehan, Smizik, and such are on a vendetta are bound and determined to promote their agendas through their columns. My question to these guys, is where were they years ago, when the same thing was occuring only, there was no money spent on the organization. The prospect cupboard was bare and Littlefield made picks based on signability. While Overbay is not the best option to bring in on a one year contract, we have no proof that a guys like Derek Lee and others weren't contacted to establish mutual interest. But I like the idea of putting a good defensive veteran first baseman there for now while guys like Walker and Alvarez build their confidence in playing their positions. While I don't think Overbay is a great signing and 5 million is definitely a bit of an overpay. I would rather overpay on a one year deal then pay 126 million over 7 years for a player that will surely be worth about half his contract by the end of it. If things play out the way everyone sees it, Alvarez will be over there soon enough and Rendon will be manning third, so there's no sense blocking the position with a short term fix.

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    Default Re: Joe Sheehan on the Pirates Off Season

    I don't believeJoe Sheehan knows much more than the next guy. He's paid for an opinion just like the next baseball writers and it took him until 2010 to attract a major media outlet to help him voice his opinion. doesn't help that he's hidden behind the walls of Baseball Prospectus which is far inferior than Baseball America anyways.

    That said, I agree with signing Diaz and releasing Milledge. Milledge has more upside than Diaz. Just when you factor in age alone, Milledge makes more sense than Diaz.

    As I've debated with PFIV... $5 million is more than Overbay is worth but he's an upgrade over what we have defensively and his move puts Garrett Jones at RF and that upgrades that position over having a $5 million per year waste in Ryan Doumit killing us defensively. We can afford a ridiculous overpaying in value right now for a slight improvement. If we were on track for competing for a division and needed every penny, then I'd think differently but right now, 1 year contracts don't concern me since we have a ton of open payroll that we aren't going to spend. If we improve slightly but overpaying, then that's fine with me (right now)
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    Default Re: Joe Sheehan on the Pirates Off Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    I don't believeJoe Sheehan knows much more than the next guy. He's paid for an opinion just like the next baseball writers and it took him until 2010 to attract a major media outlet to help him voice his opinion. doesn't help that he's hidden behind the walls of Baseball Prospectus which is far inferior than Baseball America anyways.

    That said, I agree with signing Diaz and releasing Milledge. Milledge has more upside than Diaz. Just when you factor in age alone, Milledge makes more sense than Diaz.

    As I've debated with PFIV... $5 million is more than Overbay is worth but he's an upgrade over what we have defensively and his move puts Garrett Jones at RF and that upgrades that position over having a $5 million per year waste in Ryan Doumit killing us defensively. We can afford a ridiculous overpaying in value right now for a slight improvement. If we were on track for competing for a division and needed every penny, then I'd think differently but right now, 1 year contracts don't concern me since we have a ton of open payroll that we aren't going to spend. If we improve slightly but overpaying, then that's fine with me (right now)
    I'm kind of on the fence with the Diaz/Milledge move. I don't necessarily think Diaz is much, but if he's played in a true platoon, he provides more power now. Milledge on the other hand, I think they just got tired of the mental gaffes and the lack of power. I think if he was a more fundamentally sound player, they could be a bit more patient waiting on the power. But as he stands now, he takes up a spot more than anything else. I hope he puts it together, but he has 4th or 5th outfielder written all over him right now.

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    Default Re: Joe Sheehan on the Pirates Off Season

    Quote Originally Posted by indybucfan View Post
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    I'm kind of on the fence with the Diaz/Milledge move. I don't necessarily think Diaz is much, but if he's played in a true platoon, he provides more power now. Milledge on the other hand, I think they just got tired of the mental gaffes and the lack of power. I think if he was a more fundamentally sound player, they could be a bit more patient waiting on the power. But as he stands now, he takes up a spot more than anything else. I hope he puts it together, but he has 4th or 5th outfielder written all over him right now.
    Diaz could be fine in a split role with Jones. I agree, but not as an every day solution. Other than that though, I just look at it from an upside and potential perspective. There's potential locked in Milledge. He's showed it in his MLB career and he's still fairly young. Just hate to see that given up on especially when it's cheap and you are lacking a solution. One thing Milledge has shown was his eagerness and willingness to work on stuff.

    But, it is what it is and I think that there's a goal this year more importantly to improve instead of "train" players at the MLB level
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