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Thread: Bucs’ perpetual slide looks to continue

      
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    tocchet92's Avatar
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    Default Bucs’ perpetual slide looks to continue

    An unflattering "Early bird spring training preview" look at the Bucs from the national media...

    "Welcome to this special edition of Misguided In-Limbo Spending! On this episode, we’ll take you through a wild and voyeuristic look at a team throwing around money for no good reason other than it can! The Pittsburgh Pirates are our subject today, and they are the rarest breed: perpetual losers! It’s been 18 years now since the Pirates have even mustered a record above .500, a feat impressive in length and futility. And how do the Pirates plan to extract themselves from baseball destitute?........

    Such is the standard in Pittsburgh, a place where endemic losing has crippled the franchise. How the Pirates haven’t pulled themselves out of the morass is no mystery. Bad decisions lead to more bad decisions, and until Pittsburgh finds itself a group that can build upon whatever’s left after this round of retooling, it’s back to a drawing board already chalked up with blunders of the past.

    Pirates in haiku

    We yearn for the days
    When our players did cocaine
    At least they were good"

    Link to yahoo sports story

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    Default Re: Bucs’ perpetual slide looks to continue

    Who the heck is Jeff Passan?

    Actually I would expect anyone that isn't a true fan/blogger to both write off this season and speak of the team and upcoming season as negative as possible. Until the Pirates actually show improvement and give anyone a realistic light towards the end of the tunnel, you can't really fault them.
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    Viper
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    Default Re: Bucs’ perpetual slide looks to continue

    Local boy Dejan doesn't appear to be impressed by the Pirates' off season:

    "Figured I might be best off launching this thing with a baseball post, for fairly obvious reasons, so here goes …

    Have the Pirates improved at all?

    There is no question they will have added payroll, as promised, given the free-agent additions of first baseman Lyle Overbay (one year, $5 million), outfielder Matt Diaz (two years, $4 million), and pitchers Kevin Correia (two years, $8 million) and Scott Olsen (one year, $550,000).

    And there might be something to the front office’s concept that a platoon of Diaz and Garrett Jones in right field would boost production from that position.

    Otherwise, though, the numbers are rather stark:

    Overbay will be replacing Jones as the everyday first baseman. Overbay batted .243 in 2010, with 20 home runs and 67 RBIs in 534 at-bats. Jones batted .247 with 21 home runs and 86 RBIs in 589 at-bats. Slight edge to Jones, though not much.

    Diaz/Jones essentially will replace Lastings Milledge in right. Diaz batted .250 with seven home runs and 31 RBIs in 224 at-bats. Milledge batted .277 with four home runs and 34 RBIs in 379 at-bats. Hard to debate this one, given Milledge’s paltry power and Diaz’s uneven left-right splits. But again, the platoon aspect probably will make this into an upgrade.

    Correia was 10-10 with a 5.40 ERA for a contender in San Diego, though that came with the hugely extenuating circumstance of a family tragedy in midseason. Olsen was 4-8 with a 5.56 ERA and comes with more baggage than Milledge and Raul Mondesi combined. (We’ll see if Clint Hurdle tolerates smoking, for example.)

    Are either of those better than Zach Duke?

    Can the rotation really count on Charlie Morton and crossed fingers?

    It’s one thing for the Pirates to say that help is on the way with the Altoona pitching prospects, but the scouts I’ve talked to say the only one ready for a leap to the majors at any point this summer is Rudy Owens, and they are lukewarm on that possibility.

    Frank Coonelly came right out last week and said that the primary pieces left for the 2011 Pirates to amass are in the bullpen, which means this is pretty much your team.

    Are you excited?

    Deflated?

    Don’t care?

    Thinking beyond 2011, anyway?

    If you want to hear more of my thoughts, I'll be on the air with Mark Madden at a little after 5 p.m. today on 105.9 FM. In the interim, I plan to chime in from the Steelers' practice this afternoon."


    http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/i...mproved-at-all

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    Default Re: Bucs’ perpetual slide looks to continue

    Pretty reasonable right up by Dejan.

    Basically there's a lot of question marks. This could be a 55 win team or a 70 win team and beyond. Who knows. Sometimes there's something to be said for chemistry and an abundance of great luck (see : 1997 Pittsburgh Pirates) that you can't scribble on paper. Then again, there's simply a ****ty team.

    If Correia's 2010 was family related, then we gained a pitcher with the potential of a sub 4 ERA and 1.30 WHIP. Combined that with what James Mcdonald showed last year and what Ross Ohlendorf has shown he has the potential for and it's a clear upgrade in pitching over Zach Duke. The problem is that you never know what you are going to get year to year or half season to half season from Pirates players. We know what the potential is, but we can't figure out any certainty on it. If we went just on potential and such, Charlie Morton wouldn't have been the butt of so many jokes and Lastings Milledge would've hit more than 4 home runs.

    I really don't know about the Pirates. There's more potential there than the ****ty results we've seen. There was more potential there last year than the ****ty results. What Clint Hurdle needs to do that John Russell couldn't, is get the potential out of these players. It won't result in a great team or pennant but it should result in a nice improvement and that sign of moving forward that is needed to cement some actual certainty of this team heading forward instead of relying on a belief
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    Default Re: Bucs’ perpetual slide looks to continue

    As the teams looks right now a lot of things are going to have to break in their favor for them to even get in the low 90 loss range.

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    Default Re: Bucs’ perpetual slide looks to continue

    Quote Originally Posted by PittFaninVa View Post
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    As the teams looks right now a lot of things are going to have to break in their favor for them to even get in the low 90 loss range.
    Low 90's range would be anywhere from 68-72 wins. Eliminate a couple months of a 2B hitting .200 or worse, a couple months of Andy Laroche's offensive production, eliminate Charlie Morton's 2 months worth of 9 loses at least and 12-15+ ERA which nobody is every projected to do and 68-72 is very very possible.

    I don't even think "break" is the right term, just perform up to this years realistic expectations and 68-72 wins is a strong possibility
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    Default Re: Bucs’ perpetual slide looks to continue

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    Low 90's range would be anywhere from 68-72 wins. Eliminate a couple months of a 2B hitting .200 or worse, a couple months of Andy Laroche's offensive production, eliminate Charlie Morton's 2 months worth of 9 loses at least and 12-15+ ERA which nobody is every projected to do and 68-72 is very very possible.

    I don't even think "break" is the right term, just perform up to this years realistic expectations and 68-72 wins is a strong possibility
    If they can get to 68-72 wins and the farm system has a breakout year I will be tempted to lower my 9mm from my temple!

    BTW I am still holding out hope for Charlie Morton...

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    Default Re: Bucs’ perpetual slide looks to continue

    Quote Originally Posted by PittFaninVa View Post
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    If they can get to 68-72 wins and the farm system has a breakout year I will be tempted to lower my 9mm from my temple!

    BTW I am still holding out hope for Charlie Morton...


    68-72 is a possibility. I don't know if they get there. I'll probably again project them to win in that range but there's so many variables. Despite not having a legit 1B/RF option, a headcase at SS and a light hitting defensive catcher to go along with a lack of ACE, the rest of the players on this team are the most exciting that I've seen since the end of the 1980's. Alvarez, Walker, Tabata, McCutchen, McDonald, Ohlendorf, Meek, Hanrahan. those guys can't perform too much below expectations and the 68-72 range still remain an expectation

    I'm not saying a word about Charlie Morton this offseason. I'm keep that opinion to myself this time!
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    Default Re: Bucs’ perpetual slide looks to continue

    Quote Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
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    Low 90's range would be anywhere from 68-72 wins. Eliminate a couple months of a 2B hitting .200 or worse, a couple months of Andy Laroche's offensive production, eliminate Charlie Morton's 2 months worth of 9 loses at least and 12-15+ ERA which nobody is every projected to do and 68-72 is very very possible.

    I don't even think "break" is the right term, just perform up to this years realistic expectations and 68-72 wins is a strong possibility
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    Default Re: Bucs’ perpetual slide looks to continue

    I tried Keystoner

    did you say something about Charlie morton - Ol' Electric stuff makes you drink before pitchers and catchers?
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    Default Re: Bucs’ perpetual slide looks to continue

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    Default Re: Bucs’ perpetual slide looks to continue

    Here is my favorite take on the Pirates off-season moves. It explains why change for change's sake is still good even if its only a marginal improvement. He hits the nail on the head, IMO. Here is an excerpt:

    "...As a Pirates fan, I not only understand Huntington making changes for the sake of change, but a part of me also demands it. I can cite Zach Duke's xFIP as much as I want to argue that he's still a non-useless major league pitcher who had an unlucky 2010 largely caused by an atrocious defense, but still, the baser, gut-reactiony part of me has zero interest in watching another excruciating Duke start in 2011. I can cite Milledge's platoon splits and his age and pedigree and not be factually incorrect, and yet, if he were penciled into the 2011 Buccos lineup, the fan in me would be rolling my eyes in anticipation of his creatively spastic baserunning mistakes before Spring Training even let out. And I can clamor on and on about how a manager in baseball is mostly immaterial, and scoff at Clint Hurdle's inane one-line axioms, but if John Russell hadn't been fired, I would've seriously considered flushing my Extra Innings Package money down the toilet this year instead of spending it to watch the Pirates (and thus doing it figuratively). The Pirates had to do something after the 57-win season, even if that something includes signing a pitcher with a 5.40 ERA in PETCO Park (roughly a six billion ERA with the Pirates' park and defense)......."
    http://pittsburgh.sbnation.com/pitts...in-correia-mlb
    Last edited by tocchet92; Jan-19-2011 at 07:03 AM.

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    Default Re: Bucs’ perpetual slide looks to continue

    tocchet92, I understand what's said in your last post. I think I'll just be philisophical this year, about the current state of the team, and yearn for the Pirates to rise from their quagmire to become a very good ballclub. We have the Steelers and the Penguins. I want the Pirates back!

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    Default Re: Bucs’ perpetual slide looks to continue

    Quote Originally Posted by tocchet92 View Post
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    Here is my favorite take on the Pirates off-season moves. It explains why change for change's sake is still good even if its only a marginal improvement. He hits the nail on the head, IMO. Here is an excerpt:

    "...As a Pirates fan, I not only understand Huntington making changes for the sake of change, but a part of me also demands it. I can cite Zach Duke's xFIP as much as I want to argue that he's still a non-useless major league pitcher who had an unlucky 2010 largely caused by an atrocious defense, but still, the baser, gut-reactiony part of me has zero interest in watching another excruciating Duke start in 2011. I can cite Milledge's platoon splits and his age and pedigree and not be factually incorrect, and yet, if he were penciled into the 2011 Buccos lineup, the fan in me would be rolling my eyes in anticipation of his creatively spastic baserunning mistakes before Spring Training even let out. And I can clamor on and on about how a manager in baseball is mostly immaterial, and scoff at Clint Hurdle's inane one-line axioms, but if John Russell hadn't been fired, I would've seriously considered flushing my Extra Innings Package money down the toilet this year instead of spending it to watch the Pirates (and thus doing it figuratively). The Pirates had to do something after the 57-win season, even if that something includes signing a pitcher with a 5.40 ERA in PETCO Park (roughly a six billion ERA with the Pirates' park and defense)......."
    http://pittsburgh.sbnation.com/pitts...in-correia-mlb
    I don't think it's really change for change's sake, per se. Like it or not, the FO has to do things to keep fans in the seats. The managerial firing this year, even after his contract had been renewed, was precipitated as much by the need to change SOMETHING, as it was by the lack of trust in Russell, imho. We night not want to believe that Huntington considers fan support when he makes moves, but I am almost certain that he does...

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