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Thread: Lincoln and Owens

      
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    Default Lincoln and Owens

    What are their ceilings? Part of me wants to see them in the rotation from the get go this year. Part of me wants them in AAA for a bit until someone falters gets injured whatever.

    I wouldn't be opposed to Maholm getting dealt and Morton moving to pen and these guys getting the 4 and 5 spots. Thoughts?

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    Default Re: Lincoln and Owens

    Quote Originally Posted by Lup View Post
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    What are their ceilings? Part of me wants to see them in the rotation from the get go this year. Part of me wants them in AAA for a bit until someone falters gets injured whatever.

    I wouldn't be opposed to Maholm getting dealt and Morton moving to pen and these guys getting the 4 and 5 spots. Thoughts?
    Nobody really knows what Ownes' ceiling is. He's added velocity which was a must and he's now produced well 2 seasons in a row. If he tears up AAA you could see him called up some time this year, maybe opening a door for a Maholm trade possibility but a lot of things have to fall in place IMO.

    Lincoln needs to erase what was messed with by Kerrigan and then IMO he needs to dominate AAA for a longer period than he did. His velocity needs to get back up there.

    I don't think either are rated as #1-2 types but neither was Doug Drabek,so I don't put too much weight on that personally. It'll be a matter of how they do when they get up here..

    Also, if Charlie Morton can start off the season continuing how he ended 2010 instead of how he played in the start of 2010 (if he wins the 5th spot), Morton has a nice selection of pitches if his mental side can catch up.

    Nice log jam to have if you ask me.

    First though i think it all comes down to how players perform and this has got to be the last year we are in this sort of evaluation state with so many players and positions. We need to really start solidifying and this year will give us, should give us a lot of answers
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    Default Re: Lincoln and Owens

    I would be shocked if Owens was not called up this year.

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    Default Re: Lincoln and Owens

    Very disappointed in Lincoln. Saw him in his first AAA start in 2009 and was impressed. Kipper says the backslide is Kerrigan's doing. How so?

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    Default Re: Lincoln and Owens

    Quote Originally Posted by carney2 View Post
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    Very disappointed in Lincoln. Saw him in his first AAA start in 2009 and was impressed. Kipper says the backslide is Kerrigan's doing. How so?
    Tinkering with his mechanics from the day he first looked at him. Kerrigan "saw" somethings that needed addressing and in the process destroyed everything that made Lincoln successful. It was horrible to watch, he just kept getting worse and worse with his command, then his velocity dropped off. Muscle memory is a real ***** to unlearn, once your body wants to do something your stuck doing it for a while.

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    Default Re: Lincoln and Owens

    It should be interesting how the Indy rotation plays out. Lincoln could be passed by Owens, Morris and Wilson. Lincoln will still be the first guy called up until at least June. After that if he's not up here for good he may never be up.

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    Default Re: Lincoln and Owens

    As objective as I can be, I don't think Lincoln ever stays in the "bigs," although he will be given chances.

    I see nothing special in his pitches, control, velocity, variety, or certainly "heat."

    If the Pirate pitching ever comes around, it will be with younger players than Lincoln.

    I hope I am wrong, but.....

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    Default Re: Lincoln and Owens

    Quote Originally Posted by DCBILL View Post
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    As objective as I can be, I don't think Lincoln ever stays in the "bigs," although he will be given chances.

    I see nothing special in his pitches, control, velocity, variety, or certainly "heat."

    If the Pirate pitching ever comes around, it will be with younger players than Lincoln.

    I hope I am wrong, but.....
    All I can say is that in watching him pitch during his call-up he showed almost no movement on his pitches. He seems stuffless...

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    Default Re: Lincoln and Owens

    Coonelly was effusive in his praise of Owens during PirateFest (as reported by PG blog).

    He compared Owen's prospect status to Kyle Drabek and views him as the cream of the crop of the four almost ready pitching prospects (Wilson, Locke, Owens, Morris).

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    Default Re: Lincoln and Owens

    What they said!!

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    Default Re: Lincoln and Owens

    I wonder if Lincoln has any trade value. I'd love to see him be successful in Pgh, but sometimes a change of scenery works better for some players.

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    Default Re: Lincoln and Owens

    Lincoln and Owens will definitely start in AAA. My gut feeling is that both will have to prove themselves at Indy. Lincoln because he needs to show he can be dominant again and Owens, to prove that he can get AAA hitters out.

    If both are looking good, Maholm may get dealt to make room for one of them.

    Of course, if our #5 candidates all bomb out, they may get called up to replace them.

    As for their ceiling, I truly believe both have the ability to be solid major league starters. I believe that Owens might have the higher ceiling though.

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    Default Re: Lincoln and Owens

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeFoo View Post
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    Lincoln and Owens will definitely start in AAA. My gut feeling is that both will have to prove themselves at Indy. Lincoln because he needs to show he can be dominant again and Owens, to prove that he can get AAA hitters out.

    If both are looking good, Maholm may get dealt to make room for one of them.

    Of course, if our #5 candidates all bomb out, they may get called up to replace them.

    As for their ceiling, I truly believe both have the ability to be solid major league starters. I believe that Owens might have the higher ceiling though.
    I think Lincoln starts the year in the Pirates bullpen. Unless he really bombs in ST, he's probably a lock for middle reliever/spot starter role. If he goes to Indy he's gonna have a tough time getting back to Pittsburgh after July 1 or so. He could conceivably be at the end of the line for a promotion behind Owens, Locke, Morris, and Wilson.

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    Default Re: Lincoln and Owens

    Quote Originally Posted by carney2 View Post
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    Very disappointed in Lincoln. Saw him in his first AAA start in 2009 and was impressed. Kipper says the backslide is Kerrigan's doing. How so?
    Quote Originally Posted by DCBILL View Post
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    As objective as I can be, I don't think Lincoln ever stays in the "bigs," although he will be given chances.

    I see nothing special in his pitches, control, velocity, variety, or certainly "heat."

    If the Pirate pitching ever comes around, it will be with younger players than Lincoln.

    I hope I am wrong, but.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaker100 View Post
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    It should be interesting how the Indy rotation plays out. Lincoln could be passed by Owens, Morris and Wilson. Lincoln will still be the first guy called up until at least June. After that if he's not up here for good he may never be up.
    Quote Originally Posted by buccoman View Post
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    All I can say is that in watching him pitch during his call-up he showed almost no movement on his pitches. He seems stuffless...
    Quote Originally Posted by exNCite View Post
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    I wonder if Lincoln has any trade value. I'd love to see him be successful in Pgh, but sometimes a change of scenery works better for some players.
    Holy crap are you guys panicking a little early

    We cannot use what we saw of Lincoln last year as any sort of judgment of him asa pitcher. It was the messing of his mechanics that really IMO ultimately got Kerrigan canned. I think Huntington and perhaps moreso Coonelly were pretty ****ed at how poorly Lincoln performed off of the mechanic alterations thrown onto him day 1 by Kerrigan.

    There's a very good chance that Owens could pass Lincoln up simply because Lincoln has to go back to AAA and regain his former mechanics and get his success and confidence back, where Owens is just moving forward with a chance to even win a Starting job out of camp according to Frank Coonelly in his latest chat.

    Let's just not rush to judgment of Lincoln based on what we saw with him up here last season. From what has been said, his mechanics were messed with so much that movement and velocity disappeared and dropped and consistency was all but shot. Maybe this killed his confidence or something else, but let's make a judgment on Lincoln based on his normal mechanics, delivery and pitches rather than the altered Lincoln we had seen
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    Default Re: Lincoln and Owens

    Quote Originally Posted by tocchet92 View Post
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    I think Lincoln starts the year in the Pirates bullpen. Unless he really bombs in ST, he's probably a lock for middle reliever/spot starter role. If he goes to Indy he's gonna have a tough time getting back to Pittsburgh after July 1 or so. He could conceivably be at the end of the line for a promotion behind Owens, Locke, Morris, and Wilson.
    I will be very shocked if they put him in the Bullpen to start the season. From what I've seen they want Lincoln to regain his form and mechanics and want him to be a Starter. NH hasn't really done the whole use a guy in the Bullpen and then push to starter. He's a one or the other type who I see keeping Lincoln at AAA to get better. He could always get "promoted" to the bullpen at any time, but I haven't seen much that says that they aren't going to push him as a starter
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